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We'd lose our security certificate if we allowed pasting

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Re: We'd lose our security certificate if we allowed pasting

#191
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

6 characters for a bank password?! Get a better bank! It's unbelievable how bad the password policies of some banks are. Mine doesn't allow special characters, for example. Fortunately it does allow longer passwords at least.

My bank not only allows a maximum of 6 characters, but it truncates all characters beyond 6 when processing the login form. If my password was "passwd", they would accept "passwdjdodw89wawlks".

My bank secretly truncates your password to the first 12 characters. The login form processes all characters. I found this out because I couldn't login after having "successfully" set my password to 32 random characters. Luckily customer support was able to confirm the first 12 characters of the password over the phone.

Fun times were had by all!

Re: We'd lose our security certificate if we allowed pasting

#192

The tweeter (probably a non-technical support person, so go gently on him or her as an individual) has revised the statement: "@passy I'm mistaken about the website security certificate but avoiding pasting of passwords is good practice & protects our customers 1/2" https://twitter.com/BritishGasHelp/status/463679554306203648 "@passy especially when using public computers. Alpha numerical policy ensures your protecti…

I did work for a very security-minded HR outsourcing company on an html site to be used on a public kiosk and we also disabled paste via javascript for the same reason - to prevent a user from being able to paste in a previous user's password at the same terminal.

Re: We'd lose our security certificate if we allowed pasting

#193
post #168
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like AIB. If you use the app they don't even ask for the last 4 digits of your phone number.

Bingo. I wonder what their brute force protection is like, but I'm not going to go pentesting the login of a company I'm in the same legal jurisdiction as.

Well if you don't cross state lines, they're less likely to get the FBI involved...

Re: We'd lose our security certificate if we allowed pasting

#194
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like that idea. Unfortunately it doesn't prevent them using them online as well . At least for my cards, if I lock out the PIN I can still use them for non-PIN purchases.

Ah, in the UK it is standard for the machine to keep your card after three incorrect pin attempts. (at least I think it's the standard?)

I'm in the UK as well. I was actually thinking of Chip & PIN transactions, but you may be right about cash points.

Re: We'd lose our security certificate if we allowed pasting

#195
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was probably to prevent SQL injection, right?

Properly implemented parameterized SQL would allow '; drop table users; -- As a password without batting an eye.

But since you can't guarantee that every programmer and contractor, including future ones, write proper SQL, it's nice to reduce the attack surface a bit.

Re: We'd lose our security certificate if we allowed pasting

#196
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TD's password is still HORRIBLE. It is case insensitive and ignores anything after the first 8 characters and doesn't allow special characters. If my password is "aBc123De" I can log in by entering the password "ABC123DEFOOBARBAZ".

I just tested this, it is case sensitive and it doesn't ignore things after 8 characters. I'm using TD Canada, not sure if they've maybe updated since you tried?

Strange. I tried just this morning before posting but I will update my password and try again.

edit: after updating my password it's now case sensitive, and allows special chars. As the sibling comment suggests, it looks like they have two different authentication routes and updating your password moves you onto the newer one.

Re: We'd lose our security certificate if we allowed pasting

#197
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TD's password is still HORRIBLE. It is case insensitive and ignores anything after the first 8 characters and doesn't allow special characters. If my password is "aBc123De" I can log in by entering the password "ABC123DEFOOBARBAZ".

I tried it with a new password today. The requirements were between 8 an 32 characters and some special characters allowed. I just tried with all lower case letters and it rejected it. Prior to changing my password however, I experienced everything you described. They must have 2 systems and setting a new password must switch you to the new system. Can't fathom why they don't just mandate everyone changing their pass…

Yup this appears to be it. I just changed my password and can now use a longer password with special chars (no spaces though).

Re: We'd lose our security certificate if we allowed pasting

#198

The tweeter (probably a non-technical support person, so go gently on him or her as an individual) has revised the statement: "@passy I'm mistaken about the website security certificate but avoiding pasting of passwords is good practice & protects our customers 1/2" https://twitter.com/BritishGasHelp/status/463679554306203648 "@passy especially when using public computers. Alpha numerical policy ensures your protecti…

Good advice. On a public computer you really don't want people accidentally leaving their password in the cut buffer for the next user to find.

Re: We'd lose our security certificate if we allowed pasting

#199
post #91
post #29

They probably hired the same security consultant as my bank, which requires your online password to be exactly six characters long. My hypothesis is that this is a technical limitation due to the password being stored as a char(6) in their database.

> My hypothesis is that this is a technical limitation due to the password being stored as a char(6) in their database. and legacy security policies/requirements that have not undergone any update. I've worked on a project that touched banking passwords in the past and in a push for modern password requirements (which was met....somewhere in the middle), the response was that since the number of attempts was so restr…

A common way of expressing what Afforess said is that simple passwords with effective rate limiting offer "brittle" security. As long as everything works perfectly, it's safe. However, there are many failure modes that rapidly degrade to trivially having access to all accounts. One would prefer to have defense in depth, such that failure of one part of the system would yield a system in which it's easier, but not trivial, for an attacker to access accounts.

Using a modern Key Derivation Function (KDF) such a Scrypt along with allowing more complex passwords would in many cases prevent attackers from accessing those accounts that used more complex passwords (or force the attackers to change the passwords on the accounts, risking discovery when the owners next try to log in). Enforcing minimum password complexity would dramatically increase the percentage of accounts that couldn't be bruit forced if hashes were stolen.

Hopefully the answers to security questions aren't kept in the same database as the password hashes, since they're nearly password equivalent. Even if the security question answers are hashed, 99.9% of the answers can be easily bruit forced. I grew up on g1SUIt2FJr1IHI Street and my first grade teacher was Mrs. IvwiYZ4Oar9uZg. Last year my dog was named AuiwVvMSPNTWbgy and this year I renamed him to dBuSHCTJDuSdAUu, but few people are so lucky. Also, when calling up my bank for help, it sure sounds like the phone operator can read my secret question answers off of the screen. In any case, an attacker takes some risk of discovery by resetting someone's password and hopefully banks all watch for spikes in rate of password resets, but secret question answers are nearly password-equivalent and seem to almost always be stored in plain text. The secret questions answers are the keys to the kingdom and the amount of code that has access to them needs to really be minimized and audited extremely well.

Re: We'd lose our security certificate if we allowed pasting

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US's personal banking industry is like 20 years behind the rest of the developed world. Not sure why, probably because the banks have all the money to lobby to keep things the same.

The US's personal banking industry is like 20 years behind the rest of the developed world People say Canada is a half-generation behind the US in banking innovation, which is generally in Canada's best interest. They've never had a banking crisis. Not sure why, probably because the banks have all the money to lobby to keep things the same. This response is worse than wrong, it's assuming bad intentions. For personal…

> The US's personal banking industry is like 20 years behind the rest of the developed world

>> People say Canada is a half-generation behind the US in banking innovation, which is generally in Canada's best interest. They've never had a banking crisis.

The financial crises in the US have all been caused by investment banking, innovations in retail banking are unlikely to ever cause a financial crisis.

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