SCiO: A Pocket Molecular Sensor For All • Hacker News Board

Re: SCiO: A Pocket Molecular Sensor For All

#71

Post by ihnorton » Mon, May 05, 2014, 6:19 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #69

ihnorton wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your only exposure is analytical lab work (where by definition the work is difficult), you may not be familiar with the breadth of field utility of near-IR. Some application examples: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7699186 > And how the hell does it determine the ripeness of a avocado through the skin? eg: http://ucanr.edu/datastoreFiles/234-347.pdf and http://www.aseanfood.info/Articles/13004404.pdf [edit:…

The optical and internal quality data were then merged and a PLS regression analysis was conducted using the NSAS software package (NSAS, 1990). My comment wasn't that you couldn't test the ripeness of fruit using near-IR, it was that you could reliably doing it using a handheld consumer product. There is a BIG difference between running a lab analysis using near-IR and making a consumer friendly product that can acc…

There are multiple manufacturers making NIR-based fruit quality sensors used quite far from laboratory conditions, as well as portable NIR sensors.

(See my other comments in this thread)

Re: SCiO: A Pocket Molecular Sensor For All

#72

Post by mtdewcmu » Mon, May 05, 2014, 6:42 PM UTC

alkimie2 wrote: post #19

I see a sort of structural flaw. They seem to be matching measurements against known materials and then reporting that. But where is the utility? Figuring out whether a pill is asprin or tylenol? I'd be interested in identifying characteristic of -new- materials unknown to the database. That's where the raw information is really crucial.

But then it would become a scientific instrument instead of a toy, and you'd be in a whole different market.

Re: SCiO: A Pocket Molecular Sensor For All

#73

Post by refurb » Mon, May 05, 2014, 7:07 PM UTC

ihnorton wrote: post #71

refurb wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The optical and internal quality data were then merged and a PLS regression analysis was conducted using the NSAS software package (NSAS, 1990). My comment wasn't that you couldn't test the ripeness of fruit using near-IR, it was that you could reliably doing it using a handheld consumer product. There is a BIG difference between running a lab analysis using near-IR and making a consumer friendly product that can acc…

There are multiple manufacturers making NIR-based fruit quality sensors used quite far from laboratory conditions, as well as portable NIR sensors. (See my other comments in this thread)

By "lab setting" I mean someone who can run controls, and do the statistical analysis to arrive a decent data, not just portable equipment.

I guess if they are willing to measure ripeness with a margin of error of +/-50%, that'll work.

Re: SCiO: A Pocket Molecular Sensor For All

#74

Post by hershel » Mon, May 05, 2014, 7:28 PM UTC

ihnorton wrote: post #60

Here are some links to background information, existing products, and applications of the underlying technology. They could be exaggerating the capabilities of their particular miniaturized sensor, but as far as I can tell they are not making up any new science. Spectroscopy is useful and widely used - but also occasionally oversold, so some skepticism is certainly warranted. The concrete applications they cite have…

Since similar systems exist, only at a somewhat larger size, miniaturization seems like reasonable option.

And according to [1] they're backed by khosla ventures, which s a highly respectable VC firm. If that's true , that doesn't seem like scam.

[1]http://venturebeat.com/2014/04/29/scio-handheld-sensor-can-d...

Re: SCiO: A Pocket Molecular Sensor For All

#75

Post by BlakePetersen » Mon, May 05, 2014, 7:29 PM UTC

If this can scan for carbs/sugars, this could be a real winner within the Diabetic community. I would love to be able to eat out and be able to scan my meal and know for sure how much insulin I should take.

Maybe this could even be used in conjunction with an insulin pump and some sort of sensor to determine the amount of food consumed and, BAM, artificial pancreas. (It's that easy! LOL)

Re: SCiO: A Pocket Molecular Sensor For All

#76

Post by warrenmar » Mon, May 05, 2014, 7:50 PM UTC

You can build your own spectrometer following directions from Public Lab. Their goal is to develop open-source tools for citizen science.

http://publiclab.org/wiki/spectrometer

Re: SCiO: A Pocket Molecular Sensor For All

#77

Post by nobodysfool » Mon, May 05, 2014, 7:58 PM UTC

ihnorton wrote: post #70

nobodysfool wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention that it supposedly can tell you how many grams of sugar are in something, or what "percentage of water" is in an apple? No, there's no way you could do that with spectroscopy. Say you have an apricot, you measure it with the device, and it indeed says it's an apricot. Apricots are not all the same, the "CandyCot" apricot has about 2x to 3x the sugar content of other apricots. There's no way they could…

This is inaccurate; water content is one of the easiest things to measure with near-infrared spectroscopy, and NIR has enough penetrance to be useful even for fruits with fairly tough skins (eg avocados, see last link below) There are multiple commercial manufacturers selling NIR sensors for fruit quality control: http://www.moisttech.com/ http://www.ndc.com/en/Products/On-Line-NIR-Gauges.aspx Research articles: http…

Sure, but for sugar you need to measure refraction not absorption.

Re: SCiO: A Pocket Molecular Sensor For All

#78

Post by CamperBob2 » Mon, May 05, 2014, 8:28 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #73

ihnorton wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are multiple manufacturers making NIR-based fruit quality sensors used quite far from laboratory conditions, as well as portable NIR sensors. (See my other comments in this thread)

By "lab setting" I mean someone who can run controls, and do the statistical analysis to arrive a decent data, not just portable equipment. I guess if they are willing to measure ripeness with a margin of error of +/-50%, that'll work.

+/- 50% wouldn't work in a consumer setting, but +/- 5% would work great. If you're in a lab, +/- 5% might be a disaster.

Re: SCiO: A Pocket Molecular Sensor For All

#79

Post by Zarkonnen » Tue, May 06, 2014, 5:29 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #68

Zarkonnen wrote: post #5

Hm, this is at best utterly misleading and at worst a scam.

This is a bad HN comment, not because it's skeptical, but because it has no substance. An example of a much better comment expressing skepticism is https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7697876 .

Fair point. I was going to get my GF, who actually did spectroscopy and mass spectroscopy as a job at one point, to pitch in. Will do so now.

Re: SCiO: A Pocket Molecular Sensor For All

#80

Post by Odysseas1970 » Fri, May 16, 2014, 5:23 AM UTC

rjdagost wrote: post #26

For several years I worked in spectroscopy. It's REALLY tough to take a sensor out of a controlled lab and into the uncontrolled real world and get clear, unambiguous results like this video shows. Usually the absorption signal you're trying to measure is tiny compared to changes due to background fluctuations, etc. Things tend to only work well for special types of materials that have very distinct absorption proper…

Hello. I am interested to read more about the potential sources of variation in measurement with an NIR Spectrometer. Specifically the effect of environmental conditions and of nearby system interactions, such as ambient radiation, ambient temperature, temperature of instrument or workpiece, contamination on the surface of the workpiece, complexity of workpiece composition, etc. Could you help me with some reading suggestions? Thanks!

Odysseas