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The End of Food?

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Re: The End of Food?

#51
post #37
post #8

> One of Silicon Valley’s cultural exports in the past ten years has been the concept of “lifehacking”: devising tricks to streamline the obligations of daily life, thereby freeing yourself up for whatever you’d rather be doing Well, to be frank, I'd rather be eating. What's the point of your life if you don't have time to even eat, let alone enjoy yourself.

I love eating. But there's two problems: I love eating too much , and I don't really enjoy cooking. I'd love to add something like Soylent to my "arsenal" to make it easier to skip cooking now and again and make calorie control easier. I manage to keep my weight by regularly counting calories, but it's incredibly tedious and easy to slip up with. I'd rather focus my enjoyment on a smaller set of high quality meals a…

Aren't there dozens of products already out there that let you do that?

Re: The End of Food?

#52
post #8

> One of Silicon Valley’s cultural exports in the past ten years has been the concept of “lifehacking”: devising tricks to streamline the obligations of daily life, thereby freeing yourself up for whatever you’d rather be doing Well, to be frank, I'd rather be eating. What's the point of your life if you don't have time to even eat, let alone enjoy yourself.

I suppose the argument is that you derive some amount of enjoyment from eating due to hunger. If you were never hungry, would you eat for enjoyment? Soylent's premise is that you have time to do other fun or profitable things instead of making time for a meal.

Knowing that when I get home I get to cook something good to eat is one of the driving incentives that gets me out of the office each day.

Re: The End of Food?

#53
post #13

NSFW Whenever discussions of Soylent come up, I always wonder - would the same people who want to take Soylent also agree to taking a people that made their sex drive disappear? It will definitely save time and money to not have to worry about sex, after all. NOTE: This is not a pro- or anti- Soylent sentiment, it's a mind experiment.

Why did you flag this as NSFW?

I really hope that reading the word "sex" in a [thoroughly unsexy] hacker news comment wouldn't get anyone fired.

Re: The End of Food?

#54
post #39
post #26

Rhinehart is not a fan of farms, which he refers to as “very inefficient factories.” He believes that farming should become more industrialized, not less. “It’s really the labor that gets me” This seems a little ignorant to me. Farms (at least in Australia) are amazingly industrialized. I visited my cousin's dairy farm recently and one person was working at milking dozens of cows at a time. I walked away with the ima…

This is definitely true, look at the rise of John Deere's GreenStar - GPS controlled tractors and implements which dramatically improve yields. Farmers are like hackers in many ways.

I guy I knew years ago used to work for a software company that sold software to farmers, and he said he was always surprised by how incredibly high tech farming and farmers where.

Re: The End of Food?

#55
post #8

> One of Silicon Valley’s cultural exports in the past ten years has been the concept of “lifehacking”: devising tricks to streamline the obligations of daily life, thereby freeing yourself up for whatever you’d rather be doing Well, to be frank, I'd rather be eating. What's the point of your life if you don't have time to even eat, let alone enjoy yourself.

> Well, to be frank, I'd rather be eating. What's the point of your life if you don't have time to even eat, let alone enjoy yourself.

Every time Soylent comes up, I'm reminded of The Matrix, where the crew is discussing the food eaten outside of the Matrix:

> Dozer: It's a single celled protein combined with synthetic aminos, vitamins, and minerals. Everything the body needs.

> Mouse: It doesn't have everything the body needs.

I've bonded with countless friends over meals. I've bonded with co-workers over meals. The whole "eating" thing, while it is the point of a meal, requires people to (usually) stop, and take time out of their day to do not much but eat and talk. It's not "profitable" and the food prep takes work, but the time spent with other human beings is — to me — anything but pointless.

As a one-off, I suppose, though they're making it about as unappetizing as possible. There are frozen burritos, and they taste better. The biggest argument seems to be "they're unhealty": well, yes, but you're not supposed to eat them all the time. Most "comfort food" is not healthy, physically — it's for your mind. Honestly, I wonder if the lack of social interaction from fast meals wouldn't cause negative mental health effects. (And whether that would outweigh the gains in physical health.) I personally detest eating at my desk: it's lonely.

But, maybe the creator gets this. Buried in that article,

> [The fridge] contained Miller Lite, condiments, and a pitcher of Soylent. I noticed a bag of baby carrots: food! Rhinehart, who refers to food that is not Soylent as “recreational food,” […]

Of course, > Well, to be frank, I'd rather be eating. What's the point of your life if you don't have time to even eat, let alone enjoy yourself.

Every time Soylent comes up, I'm reminded of The Matrix, where the crew is discussing the food eaten outside of the Matrix:

> Dozer: It's a single celled protein combined with synthetic aminos, vitamins, and minerals. Everything the body needs.

> Mouse: It doesn't have everything the body needs.

I've bonded with countless friends over meals. I've bonded with co-workers over meals. The whole "eating" thing, while it is the point of a meal, requires people to (usually) stop, and take time out of their day to do not much but eat and talk. It's not "profitable" and the food prep takes work, but the time spent with other human beings is — to me — anything but pointless.

As a one-off, I suppose, though they're making it about as unappetizing as possible. There are frozen burritos, and they taste better. The biggest argument seems to be "they're unhealty": well, yes, but you're not supposed to eat them all the time. Most "comfort food" is not healthy, physically — it's for your mind. Honestly, I wonder if the lack of social interaction from fast meals wouldn't cause negative mental health effects. (And whether that would outweigh the gains in physical health.) I personally detest eating at my desk: it's lonely.

But, maybe the creator gets this. Buried in that article,

> [The fridge] contained Miller Lite, condiments, and a pitcher of Soylent. I noticed a bag of baby carrots: food! Rhinehart, who refers to food that is not Soylent as “recreational food,” […]

Of course,

> Brown grabbed a taco and tore open a piece of “chicken.” [(Beyond Meat, a meat substitute for vegetarians/vegans or anyone who wants it)] The white substance was remarkably meatlike: it tasted slightly fatty, and the texture resembled muscle fibre. “See how this pulls?” Brown said. “This is really what sets us apart.”

Beyond meat does match the look of chicken quite incredibly. The taste, not so much. I've found that it tends to taste good when accompanied with other stuff (such as in a taco, which has a variety of toppings), but that the taste comes from the toppings, not the "meat", which is itself pretty bland.

> “There’s no afternoon crash, no post-burrito coma.”

That I might welcome.

> Meals provide punctuation to our lives: we’re constantly recovering from them, anticipating them, riding the emotional ups and downs of a good or a bad sandwich. With a bottle of Soylent on your desk, time stretches before you, featureless and a little sad.

This is my concern. (The author then proceeds to visit a bagel shop, and is thankful that he isn't eating the unhealthy bagel, which may distract from the "featureless" problem, but is otherwise unanswered.)

But then, I also tend to like doing dishes, I think because it's one of the few parts of my day where things slow down and I'm not longer forced to be thinking, and I can finally — ironically — think. > Brown grabbed a taco and tore open a piece of “chicken.” [(Beyond Meat, a meat substitute for vegetarians/vegans or anyone who wants it)] The white substance was remarkably meatlike: it tasted slightly fatty, and the texture resembled muscle fibre. “See how this pulls?” Brown said. “This is really what sets us apart.”

Beyond meat does match the look of chicken quite incredibly. The taste, not so much. I've found that it tends to taste good when accompanied with other stuff (such as in a taco, which has a variety of toppings), but that the taste comes from the toppings, not the "meat", which is itself pretty bland.

> “There’s no afternoon crash, no post-burrito coma.”

That I might welcome.

> Meals provide punctuation to our lives: we’re constantly recovering from them, anticipating them, riding the emotional ups and downs of a good or a bad sandwich. With a bottle of Soylent on your desk, time stretches before you, featureless and a little sad.

This is my concern. (The author then proceeds to visit a bagel shop, and is thankful that he isn't eating the unhealthy bagel, which may distract from the "featureless" problem, but is otherwise unanswered.)

But then, I also tend to like doing dishes, I think because it's one of the few parts of my day where things slow down and I'm not longer forced to be thinking, and I can finally — ironically — think.

Re: The End of Food?

#56
post #13

NSFW Whenever discussions of Soylent come up, I always wonder - would the same people who want to take Soylent also agree to taking a people that made their sex drive disappear? It will definitely save time and money to not have to worry about sex, after all. NOTE: This is not a pro- or anti- Soylent sentiment, it's a mind experiment.

Food is more expensive and time consuming than sex. I've never heard anyone say that sex is a chore, but I often feel that way cooking food that I don't want to eat, but have to because I'm hungry.

Sex is way more expensive. Most of your life's spending is spent indirectly on sex.

Re: The End of Food?

#57
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article addresses your concerns. First - the author lives almost entirely on Soylent for the past year and half. The reporter wrote that he looked and behaved really healthy. Sure, there could be some side effects that will manifest much later, but to this date it seems that there are none. Second - he doesn't believe that Soylent will, or should, replace food entirely. He calls everything else "recreational food…

> First - the author lives almost entirely on Soylent for the past year and half. In other words, a sample size of one. I haven't an opinion on the safety of the product, but a sample size of one only proves it's not an outright poison. It's likely not actively harmful, but still, nutrition is a complicated thing. I just think the whole idea of it couldn't be more depressing. People who don't get enjoyment out of foo…

Whether or not it's a sample size of one, it's the longest soylent trial I've read about so far. You have to start somewhere.

Re: The End of Food?

#58
post #29

I'm a little concerned about the long-term effects. The article states that the founder looks and feels healthy, but since he's the only person living off Soylent for an extended period, this is anecdotal evidence at best. It reminds me of the death of Seth Roberts, a couple of days ago.

Many people eat nothing but unhealthy crap for years and still stay relatively healthy. Human body is really good at metabolising even a limited variety of food into many different chemicals it needs. Well-balanced diet hasn't really been a thing in human history until recently. Mix of nutrients designed to our best knowledge can't be any worse than eating pizza/fries/burgers/soda 24/7.

You're reasoning that eating fast food isn't all that bad for you, and for that Soylent can't be worse? Because there are countless clinical trials and scientific researches that prove a correlation between fast food and heart disease, cancer et al. All I'm saying is that for a product like Soylent the long term effects haven't been studied yet.

To be clear: I'm not biased against Soylent. If it's indeed just as healthy as regular food it can save a lot of time, and maybe it can even solve some hunger issues in the third world. I'm merely saying it should be studied more before jumping on the bandwagon. I mean, it's made by a 25 year old electrical engineer who failed a cheap cellphone tower startup. In an apartment in The Tenderloin. If you want to put your life in his hands by all means go ahead, but I'll just stick with actual food for now, at least until I see the results of some clinical trials.

On a side note: food as a business is hard. Medicin is even harder. There are so many rules, regulations, government agencies, etcetera. They're mostly there for a reason: to keep food and medicine safe. I hope these guys realize what they're getting into. If there's only a hint of claiming something is 'just as healty as regular food' you're opening a giant can of worms...

Re: The End of Food?

#59
post #26

Rhinehart is not a fan of farms, which he refers to as “very inefficient factories.” He believes that farming should become more industrialized, not less. “It’s really the labor that gets me” This seems a little ignorant to me. Farms (at least in Australia) are amazingly industrialized. I visited my cousin's dairy farm recently and one person was working at milking dozens of cows at a time. I walked away with the ima…

You are right. I've been working in this domain for 15 years. Technologies such as GPS, auto guidance, remote sensing, were common in agriculture back then. Some farmers are hackers too. I saw some pretty amazing Excel (!) spreadsheets modeling crop growth or disease damage.

There is something true when he says that farms are inefficient factories. They sometimes fail to give a proper income to the famer, considering the work they put in. But for me the solution is not overspecialized industrialized farms growing one crop for the rest of the world. It would be better to have highly versatile farms dedicated to fulfill the needs of specific areas to minimize transportation impact. I've never seen any environnemental protection concern related to the soylent production. It's all about saving time while eating healthy.

I saw a documentary about chinese farmers growing tomatoes. They could not imagine eating what they were growing. Pretty sad for a farmer.

Re: The End of Food?

#60
post #51
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love eating. But there's two problems: I love eating too much , and I don't really enjoy cooking. I'd love to add something like Soylent to my "arsenal" to make it easier to skip cooking now and again and make calorie control easier. I manage to keep my weight by regularly counting calories, but it's incredibly tedious and easy to slip up with. I'd rather focus my enjoyment on a smaller set of high quality meals a…

Aren't there dozens of products already out there that let you do that?

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