Zed Shaw on SF vs NYC • Hacker News Board

Re: Zed Shaw on SF vs NYC

#81

Post by gnosis » Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 1:41 AM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #78

gnosis wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I think SF has more dangerous places then I've ever been to in NYC. In fact, though I've travelled quite a lot around the US and around the world, I'd say that I've never felt more threatened than I was in parts of SF. SF is kind of weird in that it has these micro-neighborhoods, where you could go from a quite nice, posh neighborhood to a junky hangout in the space of a block. In NYC the transition from neighb…

I was coming off Market and heading towards California one day when I happened to look at a homeless guy. I mean it was just an innocent glance -- like anybody does all the time. His eyes got big and round and he walked over to me and started screaming, at the top of his lungs. Every sort of paranoid delusion and profanity you could imagine: he yelled it right in my face. I, of course, totally ignored him at this poi…

I honestly think many of those homeless people are suffering from quite serious mental illness. They are not on the streets by choice.

Re: Zed Shaw on SF vs NYC

#82

Post by osi » Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 1:47 AM UTC

rdouble wrote: post #72

I just did the opposite move, from SF to NYC. The Mexican food in SF is very specific - Burritos. Burritos are as much Californian food as they are Mexican. You'll be hard pressed to get a decent burrito in most of Mexico. You'll also be hard pressed to find a decent burrito outside of SF once you've lived there. The burritos in NYC are a joke. However, tacos in NYC are fine. The mexican people in California are usua…

same here. just moved back to NYC from SF (after leaving NYC for SF about 3 years ago for a startup). SF was nice, but boring. just walking around the city, its not as alive.

as for burritos, you are right. i totally miss those. the best i've found in NYC so far is http://www.yelp.com/biz/uncle-moes-burritos-new-york .. if only they had the same tight foil roll that they do in SF.

Re: Zed Shaw on SF vs NYC

#83

Post by neilk » Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 2:02 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #41

I lived in Bayview, north of Candlestick, for a couple months. My sense was that it was the worst neighborhood in San Francisco. It didn't even come close to the worst of Chicago. How does someone from NYC manage to get intimidated by SF? I kind of don't believe this happened. San Francisco is too small for genuinely dangeous neighborhoods, and the whole area is so expensive that even Oakland is viable for family hou…

How could Bayview trump the Tenderloin? Or for that matter, Emeryville (if we're counting the East Bay?)

Here's a map of SF crime by district.

http://www.teamten.com/lawrence/projects/sfcrime/

Re: Zed Shaw on SF vs NYC

#84

Post by rdouble » Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 2:13 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #41

I lived in Bayview, north of Candlestick, for a couple months. My sense was that it was the worst neighborhood in San Francisco. It didn't even come close to the worst of Chicago. How does someone from NYC manage to get intimidated by SF? I kind of don't believe this happened. San Francisco is too small for genuinely dangeous neighborhoods, and the whole area is so expensive that even Oakland is viable for family hou…

How does someone from NYC manage to get intimidated by SF?

Have you been to NYC over the past 10 years? Minneapolis has had a higher violent crime rate. NYC is like romper room for adults these days. In addition to having actual worse crime stats, SF also feels sketchier due to the huge weirdo lurker population. That said, I do wonder which scary bus Zed was taking.

I used to work in the Bayshore. Aside from the night I had to find some clothes for the naked hooker that got dumped in my work's parking lot by a Suge Night looking dude in an SUV, nothing bad ever happened.

http://www.burbed.com/2006/05/23/crime-rate-comparison-san-f...

Re: Zed Shaw on SF vs NYC

#85

Post by rdouble » Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 2:15 AM UTC

osi wrote: post #82

rdouble wrote: post #72

I just did the opposite move, from SF to NYC. The Mexican food in SF is very specific - Burritos. Burritos are as much Californian food as they are Mexican. You'll be hard pressed to get a decent burrito in most of Mexico. You'll also be hard pressed to find a decent burrito outside of SF once you've lived there. The burritos in NYC are a joke. However, tacos in NYC are fine. The mexican people in California are usua…

same here. just moved back to NYC from SF (after leaving NYC for SF about 3 years ago for a startup). SF was nice, but boring. just walking around the city, its not as alive. as for burritos, you are right. i totally miss those. the best i've found in NYC so far is http://www.yelp.com/biz/uncle-moes-burritos-new-york .. if only they had the same tight foil roll that they do in SF.

I think one of those guys is from Watsonville, so they don't pack it as tight and put on too much sour cream.

Re: Zed Shaw on SF vs NYC

#86

Post by ghshephard » Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 2:54 AM UTC

hughprime wrote: post #71

timr wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty cold here in early summer -- I was wearing a sweater and a winter coat a few evenings last month. I just spent seven years in Seattle (aka the Gloomiest Place on Earth), and even I think it's a bit ridiculous to be wearing a winter coat in July. I also routinely run into tourists over by Giants Park who underestimated the weather, and who are frantically searching for warmer clothes. That said, I like it…

I'm enjoying my first SF (well, Emeryville actually) summer after three years in Sacramento, where "summer" means "90 straight 100+ days". I think it's nice that even on the hottest day of the year I can still walk around outside for an hour without feeling like I'm going to die of heatstroke. Unless you're planning a day at the beach, I think "hot" is overrated (and I say that as a Sydney native).

Emeryville is a significantly different Micro Climate than San Francisco. There are even parts of the actual _city_ of San Francisco that have different weather patterns - and just go a little South down the peninsula, and it's like you are in a different State when it comes to the weather.

Re: Zed Shaw on SF vs NYC

#87

Post by tptacek » Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 2:59 AM UTC

neilk wrote: post #83

tptacek wrote: post #41

I lived in Bayview, north of Candlestick, for a couple months. My sense was that it was the worst neighborhood in San Francisco. It didn't even come close to the worst of Chicago. How does someone from NYC manage to get intimidated by SF? I kind of don't believe this happened. San Francisco is too small for genuinely dangeous neighborhoods, and the whole area is so expensive that even Oakland is viable for family hou…

How could Bayview trump the Tenderloin? Or for that matter, Emeryville (if we're counting the East Bay?) Here's a map of SF crime by district. http://www.teamten.com/lawrence/projects/sfcrime/

I don't know this for sure, but I'd bet that vice and drug crimes jack the stats up for the Tenderloin. Also, this is 1998; 10 years could change a whole lot in SF. But I'm even more certain that 10 years has made SF more hospitable, not less.

Re: Zed Shaw on SF vs NYC

#88

Post by bballant » Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 5:06 AM UTC

rdouble wrote: post #72

I just did the opposite move, from SF to NYC. The Mexican food in SF is very specific - Burritos. Burritos are as much Californian food as they are Mexican. You'll be hard pressed to get a decent burrito in most of Mexico. You'll also be hard pressed to find a decent burrito outside of SF once you've lived there. The burritos in NYC are a joke. However, tacos in NYC are fine. The mexican people in California are usua…

NYC is still plenty dangerous, just not anywhere you've been yet. It's such a different city than San Francisco that it's almost impossible to compare their safety in any general way. But for someone like you, who probably lives and works in Manhattan, you'll likely be more safe than you were in San Francisco. Just don't take this safety for granted or think of it as a joke. NY is a much bigger city than SF and bad stuff happens even in the nicest neighborhoods.

Here's an illuminating map: http://projects.nytimes.com/crime/homicides/map

Re: Zed Shaw on SF vs NYC

#89

Post by rdouble » Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 6:10 AM UTC

bballant wrote: post #88

rdouble wrote: post #72

I just did the opposite move, from SF to NYC. The Mexican food in SF is very specific - Burritos. Burritos are as much Californian food as they are Mexican. You'll be hard pressed to get a decent burrito in most of Mexico. You'll also be hard pressed to find a decent burrito outside of SF once you've lived there. The burritos in NYC are a joke. However, tacos in NYC are fine. The mexican people in California are usua…

NYC is still plenty dangerous, just not anywhere you've been yet. It's such a different city than San Francisco that it's almost impossible to compare their safety in any general way. But for someone like you, who probably lives and works in Manhattan, you'll likely be more safe than you were in San Francisco. Just don't take this safety for granted or think of it as a joke. NY is a much bigger city than SF and bad s…

Although vastly different in size, NYC and San Francisco are the most closely related cities in the USA when it comes to urban density. It's not that much of a stretch to compare the two. A big difference is that in San Francisco it's very easy to wind up in a bad neighborhood. Some of the worst neighborhoods are right in the middle of the city. In New York, it's hard to wind up in a bad neighborhood, unless you live there. This is a return to NYC for me and it's interesting to see how much safer it is than it was even 10 years ago, when it was already much safer than the 1980s...

Re: Zed Shaw on SF vs NYC

#90

Post by shiranaihito » Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 8:54 AM UTC

blasdel wrote: post #59

shiranaihito wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+34, seriously? Apparently HN is like a high school girl clique that's decided Zed Is Bad.

No, we've just decided that Zed Is Predictable.

Well, I've never understood the Zed -hate. People say he's a prick, but people saying that doesn't make it true.

To me, he seems like an intelligent and nice person. His writings are often blunt, but how often is he blunt and wrong?

As for being predictable, I predict that the prediction "he starts whining about how everyone in SF is a "douche" and fuck them because I'm the genius who wrote Lamson" is wrong. Your comment, on the other hand, looks like you believe it will happen.