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Zed Shaw on SF vs NYC

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Re: Zed Shaw on SF vs NYC

#71
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why people don't like the summer weather in San Francisco. Sure, if you live on the ocean side or in Pacifica it can be foggy and cold but in other parts of the city like the Financial District, North Beach or the Mission it is really comfortable most of the summer (high 60s, 70s and sunny most days). If you like super hot weather then you just head down the South Bay or over to the East Bay and you can…

It's pretty cold here in early summer -- I was wearing a sweater and a winter coat a few evenings last month. I just spent seven years in Seattle (aka the Gloomiest Place on Earth), and even I think it's a bit ridiculous to be wearing a winter coat in July. I also routinely run into tourists over by Giants Park who underestimated the weather, and who are frantically searching for warmer clothes. That said, I like it…

I'm enjoying my first SF (well, Emeryville actually) summer after three years in Sacramento, where "summer" means "90 straight 100+ days". I think it's nice that even on the hottest day of the year I can still walk around outside for an hour without feeling like I'm going to die of heatstroke.

Unless you're planning a day at the beach, I think "hot" is overrated (and I say that as a Sydney native).

Re: Zed Shaw on SF vs NYC

#72
I just did the opposite move, from SF to NYC.

The Mexican food in SF is very specific - Burritos. Burritos are as much Californian food as they are Mexican. You'll be hard pressed to get a decent burrito in most of Mexico. You'll also be hard pressed to find a decent burrito outside of SF once you've lived there.

The burritos in NYC are a joke. However, tacos in NYC are fine. The mexican people in California are usually from California... home of the burrito. All the mexicans I've met in NYC are from D.F - where there are no burritos to be found, but there are tacos. You can get nopales with your taco in NYC, it's hard to get them in SF. Zed's right though... in general there's better mexican food in SF. However, NYC definitely is not the worst. Try getting mexican food in Wisconsin, for example.

The weather in SF is weird. It's kinda cold most of the time. When I was a kid in the midwest I used to watch skateboard videos featuring SF. I'd mimic the guys who wore a winter hat and a t-shirt. I was determined to be as rad as they were. My head got so hot, I couldn't stand it. I couldn't figure out how those dudes could do it. It all came together when I moved to SF. It's the only place in the world where it makes sense to leave the house in a winter hat and a t-shirt.

The weather in NYC is balls this summer, but I kind of like having an excuse to wear shorts for the first time in 5 years.

NYC is indeed dirtier overall. However, if Zed really wants to know where the part of San Francisco that makes god weep, it's 6th and Market. Human poo, needles, meth tweakers, etc. The lower tenderloin up the hill from that intersection is a also a horror movie.

Regarding sketchiness, the sketchy parts of SF are actually sketchy. NYC, not so much. I've been mugged twice in SF. Once right in front of my apartment. My roommate was beat up by three dudes for 18 dollars. The hells angels dude got mowed down right over where I used to live. 21st street is the dividing line between the Nortenos and Sorrenos... 2 guys got shot on the street in front of my startup, while I was at work. Note that this was Bryant street and 21st in the Mission... where tons of hipsters and software people live...in 2006. There are constant gunshots in the projects next to Hayes Valley, right up the street from everyone's favorite coffee shop, Blue Bottle. I moved to a "nicer" neighborhood, Cole Valley, and within months my house got broken into and my TV was stolen by a crackhead. Market street after midnight (or after noon, depending on the day) is like 28 days later or similar apocalyptic zombie movie.. and so forth. Don't get me started on Oakland.

In contrast, New York is so safe these days it's a joke. You have to try pretty hard to get to a bad neighborhood in NYC these days. I never thought I'd "go soft" by moving to New York, but I'm not looking over my shoulder for tweakers and thugs anywhere in manhattan. I left my bike locked up on the street in Brooklyn and nobody ganked my seat like they did in Berkeley. Etc.

Regarding tech, I haven't been here too long. I know Zed hates ruby, but we had a nycrb meetup at work, and it was much better than the ruby meetups I'd been to in SF. The people were really cool. I also thought the "lame" project email he received sounded like a fun project, and I work for a fashion company, so maybe I'm not as cool as Zed. I do miss TechShop in Menlo Park already, as well as all the South Bay weirdos who build robots and actually design circuits and work on network routing protocols and stuff like that. There doesn't seem to be an equivalent to that out here, but maybe I just haven't found it.

Re: Zed Shaw on SF vs NYC

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know Zed, and I'm not interested in the minutiae of his life. Ah, I see from Wikipedia, that he wrote a web server in Ruby. Wow.

Lol: ( "This is not a post about Zed Shaw..." ) Such a self-negating post would not prove Tarsky's Theorem but it would demonstrate the impossibility of halting Zed Shaw posts... I've been reading lots of symbolic logic lately...

I'm not sure what you're getting at but it's Tarski not Tarsky.

Re: Zed Shaw on SF vs NYC

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you care about comparing SF and NYC, I wouldn't trust somebody's account of a weekend visit. I almost laughed out loud at some of it. "Awesome summer weather" and SF are fundamentally incompatible. And Zed apparently doesn't actually like Mexican food, he just likes burritos, as that's the only thing you can only find in SF. Now he is spot on regarding Muni. Actually, probably lucky he found a bus at all. Muni vs…

I don't know why people don't like the summer weather in San Francisco. Sure, if you live on the ocean side or in Pacifica it can be foggy and cold but in other parts of the city like the Financial District, North Beach or the Mission it is really comfortable most of the summer (high 60s, 70s and sunny most days). If you like super hot weather then you just head down the South Bay or over to the East Bay and you can…

I used to live in SF's Financial District, and have also lived in NYC, and I must say I much prefer SF weather. The weather is boring (no seasons), but at least it doesn't every get freezing or disgustingly hot like NYC. Plus, if you ever want warmer weather, just drive out of the city or take the BART to Berkeley and you're there.

The weather is probably the thing I like most about SF, compared to NYC. Otherwise, SF is pretty boring, and I much prefer NYC (except for the likelihood that NYC will be a target of another major terrorist attack, at some point).

Re: Zed Shaw on SF vs NYC

#75

a one page comparison of NYC vs SF, blurgh...

Based on a four day visit rolleyes

Almost every time I visit a new place I want to move there, then I hang out for a few days and miss either New York or Sydney and realize that I'm perfectly content with my home(s).

Re: Zed Shaw on SF vs NYC

#76

He's right about the Mexican food in NYC, just horrible. But then all the Mexican stands are run by Chinese because the Latinos run the pizza parlors.

Meh, you can't get California style Mexican food but you can definitely get some great tacos.

Re: Zed Shaw on SF vs NYC

#77
post #72

I just did the opposite move, from SF to NYC. The Mexican food in SF is very specific - Burritos. Burritos are as much Californian food as they are Mexican. You'll be hard pressed to get a decent burrito in most of Mexico. You'll also be hard pressed to find a decent burrito outside of SF once you've lived there. The burritos in NYC are a joke. However, tacos in NYC are fine. The mexican people in California are usua…

Yeah, I think SF has more dangerous places then I've ever been to in NYC. In fact, though I've travelled quite a lot around the US and around the world, I'd say that I've never felt more threatened than I was in parts of SF.

SF is kind of weird in that it has these micro-neighborhoods, where you could go from a quite nice, posh neighborhood to a junky hangout in the space of a block. In NYC the transition from neighborhood to neighborhood is much more gradual, so you've got more of a warning.

And Market St in SF is just insane. I have never seen so many homeless people in my life. It's like a homeless army. It's really quite sad.

I heard that at one point there was an actual proposal being considered by the SF government to round up all their homeless people and send them to Treasure Island.

Re: Zed Shaw on SF vs NYC

#78
post #77
post #72

I just did the opposite move, from SF to NYC. The Mexican food in SF is very specific - Burritos. Burritos are as much Californian food as they are Mexican. You'll be hard pressed to get a decent burrito in most of Mexico. You'll also be hard pressed to find a decent burrito outside of SF once you've lived there. The burritos in NYC are a joke. However, tacos in NYC are fine. The mexican people in California are usua…

Yeah, I think SF has more dangerous places then I've ever been to in NYC. In fact, though I've travelled quite a lot around the US and around the world, I'd say that I've never felt more threatened than I was in parts of SF. SF is kind of weird in that it has these micro-neighborhoods, where you could go from a quite nice, posh neighborhood to a junky hangout in the space of a block. In NYC the transition from neighb…

I was coming off Market and heading towards California one day when I happened to look at a homeless guy. I mean it was just an innocent glance -- like anybody does all the time.

His eyes got big and round and he walked over to me and started screaming, at the top of his lungs. Every sort of paranoid delusion and profanity you could imagine: he yelled it right in my face.

I, of course, totally ignored him at this point. Lord knows what he would have done if I had confronted him.

He followed me all the way home -- about a half-mile. Screaming the entire time. I was very thankful to live in a secure apartment building!

Sadly, this same thing happened to me a few months later with a different guy.

SF is a beautiful city, but it has a lot of issues.

Re: Zed Shaw on SF vs NYC

#79

But isn't the end result the same? Joining an existing startup as an engineer is NOT financially beneficial. Just do the math: An average post-series A startup has 10% chance of success and an average acquisition price is around $50M. Now, when you're joining as an engineer how much do you get in equity? Much less than just 1%, yet you're losing a lot of potential earning power and, most importantly, you're investing…

He never said he was looking for an exit, he's looking to immerse himself in the culture.

If he can't find culture in NYC, he's not going to find it in SF.
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