The Android Opportunity • Hacker News Board

Re: The Android Opportunity

#101

Post by jfno67 » Mon, Aug 17, 2009, 9:34 PM UTC

hedgehog wrote: post #17

jrockway wrote: post #8

As a recent Android convert, I am confused by all the "issues" that people keep mentioning. Everything on my phone Just Works. When I change the color of a calendar on Google Calendar, the color on my phone's calendar widget changes. When I change a contact on my phone, GMail and Google Voice update almost instantly. When I dial a number on the normal dialpad, my call is automatically routed through Google Voice. Whe…

Which handset is this on? How's your battery life? I have an iPhone but I'm thinking about making the switch for two main reasons: first that things like VOIP apps and Google voice won't happen on the iPhone, and second that Android's security model is vastly better. The thing is, I've spent some time with the myTouch at the T-mobile store and performance was terrible (app launching, returning to launcher screen, scr…

I have the HTC ion, which is I think the same as the myTouch. Performance is similar to what I was getting on my iPhone 3G doing mostly web, emails, messages and phone functions. My battery life is shorter than on my iPhone though, I pretty much have to charge it every night. If I don't then I'll have to keep the usage to a minimum the next day.

So battery is not as good, but the notifications are always timely, since they work in background and latitude keeps my position updated, those are probably the culprit for shorter battery life.

Re: The Android Opportunity

#102

Post by dannyr » Mon, Aug 17, 2009, 10:08 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #45

nuclear_eclipse wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Why do all eleventy-billion of my contacts show up in the dialer instead of the relatively small handful who've got phone numbers? Because the Dialer app is listing all of your contacts, because it serves as both the Dialer and the Contacts app all rolled into one. - Why the @#$% doesn't this thing have a proper headphone jack? Yell at HTC, not Android. - How do I sync music between my computer and my G1? Plug the…

BTW, you're wrong about the contacts thing. A config option will do exactly what the OP wants. (But thanks for answering the other questions. I am glad I am not the only person who likes Android :)

Same here. I love my G1. I don't understand why jacobian just hates it so much. I admit there are quirks and a lot of issues but I don't plan on switching to the IPhone anytime soon.

Re: The Android Opportunity

#103

Post by ruslan » Mon, Aug 17, 2009, 10:21 PM UTC

dkokelley wrote: post #49

ruslan wrote: post #28

I guess the only reason why ppl think "iPhone is cool" is just because of slick multi-touch GUI, there's nothing else superior in iPhone per se. I have been programming for both platforms for quite a while and, you know, I find Android's Java less evil than all that iPhone's Obj-C stuff randomly mixed with tons of C wrappers (CoreFoundation) for regular POSIX. I find Android SDK more advanced because, 1) less code do…

The G1's hardware does support multi-touch, but Apple requested that it be disabled. http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/02/09/apple-asked-google... The Palm Pre supports and uses multi-touch in the same manner as the iPhone. It would seem that multi-touch isn't Apple's sole intellectual property, though they have IMO implemented it the best.

It's so frustrating when progress gets stuck against someone's greed. I think Google should make Android open source so everyone could commit their code to support features despite the will of Apple or mobile carriers. And this will also invite smaller vendors to use and populate Android.

Re: The Android Opportunity

#104

Post by raganwald » Mon, Aug 17, 2009, 10:26 PM UTC

mattmaroon wrote: post #80

raganwald wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 In the book "Marketing Warfare," Reis and Trout emphasize that a strategy should attack a competitor's strength , not its weakness. Weaknesses will all be fixed over time, so attacking a weakness is simply making hay while the sun shines. Of course you should do it, but it shouldn't be a cornerstone of your strategy. It costs your competitor nothing to fix a weakness, they simply fix it and get better. When you pi…

Is it just a weakness? They presumably get a lot from the AT&T deal. The right to exclusive Apple branding on the phone. Visual voicemail, some untold but presumably high % of monthly contract fees (allowing them to plow tens of millions into ads, creating the virtuous cycle of users and app developer growth), an unprecedented degree of freedom over app distribution, commitments to building out the cell network, etc.…

Well they got a good deal, but it doesn't strike me as an intrinsic strength in the product itself. I think they traded a product weakness for making money, just as if they had used cheaper materials or lower-quality processes.

Re: The Android Opportunity

#105

Post by rgrieselhuber » Mon, Aug 17, 2009, 10:28 PM UTC

nuclear_eclipse wrote: post #37

jacobian wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you've got no problems with Android, maybe you can solve mine: - Why does the phone crash when I try to pair with my bluetooth headset? - Why do all eleventy-billion of my contacts show up in the dialer instead of the relatively small handful who've got phone numbers? - Why the *@#$% doesn't this thing have a proper headphone jack? - How do I sync music between my computer and my G1? - How about podcasts? - How…

- Why do all eleventy-billion of my contacts show up in the dialer instead of the relatively small handful who've got phone numbers? Because the Dialer app is listing all of your contacts, because it serves as both the Dialer and the Contacts app all rolled into one. - Why the @#$% doesn't this thing have a proper headphone jack? Yell at HTC, not Android. - How do I sync music between my computer and my G1? Plug the…

These responses, with all due respect, remind me of the answers that Linux promoters provide to mainstream consumers when trying to defend that particular OS.

They don't address the core need that the consumer has, which is a whole product that just works. Apple, at the moment, is doing a far better job.

Re: The Android Opportunity

#106

Post by ezy » Mon, Aug 17, 2009, 10:59 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #87

unalone wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply by using Ubuntu, you've made yourself a very niche user. I get the point you're making, and for your case Android certainly works better, but the point I'm making is that most users are not like you , and that your set-up has many things that would irritate me that keep me on OS X and an iPhone. This article isn't about Apple's doing everything perfectly, it's saying that there are a lot of things they do incr…

Most users that write smartphone software are like him, however. And the only reason you need users for a platform is so that people write apps to make it useful. People write for the iPhone because of the imagined mass market (which brought the cost of every useful app down to 99 cents), and people write for Android because they are programmers and it's cooler. The end result is lots of apps in both cases. Remember,…

This is a wierd perspective. You need users other than developers on a platform to make money selling the platform and the devices. If the company doesn't make money, it can't continue to upgrade the platform and make new devices. Do you really think that a platform just for developers and gadget geeks is even sustainable over the long term? This is a whole new level of crazy...

Re: The Android Opportunity

#107

Post by kalid » Mon, Aug 17, 2009, 11:03 PM UTC

nuclear_eclipse wrote: post #37

jacobian wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you've got no problems with Android, maybe you can solve mine: - Why does the phone crash when I try to pair with my bluetooth headset? - Why do all eleventy-billion of my contacts show up in the dialer instead of the relatively small handful who've got phone numbers? - Why the *@#$% doesn't this thing have a proper headphone jack? - How do I sync music between my computer and my G1? - How about podcasts? - How…

- Why do all eleventy-billion of my contacts show up in the dialer instead of the relatively small handful who've got phone numbers? Because the Dialer app is listing all of your contacts, because it serves as both the Dialer and the Contacts app all rolled into one. - Why the @#$% doesn't this thing have a proper headphone jack? Yell at HTC, not Android. - How do I sync music between my computer and my G1? Plug the…

Not to pick on you, but this is a great example of why open source usability languishes.

Customers don't want to get into the nitty gritty on anything. A stock iPhone "just works" (syncing, videos, etc) without needing anything extra. It's hard to overvalue this.

Second, people love to do feature-by-feature comparisons. I liken this to having a choice between 1) a sandwich and 2) the same ingredients in a blender.

"Oh, the nutritional value is the same! It's easier to eat!" The value of "taste" (literal and figurative) is completely lost -- I don't know how to explain it aside from that. We don't want our food in liquid form, even though the results may be the same. Yet the blender vendor continues to be confused about why people don't want his "identical" (superior?) product.

And that's assuming the products are identical but packaged differently. Dozens of annoyances like "just install this, just tweak that" turn into "Just add salt, just microwave it, just use this spice and my blended concoction will be great!".

Re: The Android Opportunity

#108

Post by dkokelley » Mon, Aug 17, 2009, 11:10 PM UTC

ruslan wrote: post #103

dkokelley wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The G1's hardware does support multi-touch, but Apple requested that it be disabled. http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/02/09/apple-asked-google... The Palm Pre supports and uses multi-touch in the same manner as the iPhone. It would seem that multi-touch isn't Apple's sole intellectual property, though they have IMO implemented it the best.

It's so frustrating when progress gets stuck against someone's greed. I think Google should make Android open source so everyone could commit their code to support features despite the will of Apple or mobile carriers. And this will also invite smaller vendors to use and populate Android.

Android is open source (http://source.android.com/). The hardware is proprietary (AFAIK). People have run MT demo applications.

It's so frustrating when progress gets stuck against someone's greed.

I would actually argue that greed has driven the majority of progress over the last century.

Re: The Android Opportunity

#109

Post by tedunangst » Mon, Aug 17, 2009, 11:52 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #40

mrshoe wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sync my music with a Perl script that looks at my xmms2 playlist and copies the music in there to the phone. For some reason I don't think this is exactly what Gruber had in mind when he said, "The goal should be to make a phone that is better than the iPhone. Better ."

It's better for me. I think a lot of people design systems for imaginary users that don't actually exist. I try to make stuff that works for me, because then at least it works for one person. (I assume "normal people" use some sort of GUI for this. If you are using Amarok, for example, it's a simple matter of drag-n-dropping your playlist to the icon that says "Android Phone".)

"I think a lot of people design systems for imaginary users that don't actually exist."

If I had to determine, based on previous personal observations, which was more likely to exist, iTunes users or perl script users, I would have to conclude that you are imaginary.

Re: The Android Opportunity

#110

Post by wayneb » Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 12:33 AM UTC

jacobian wrote: post #52

nuclear_eclipse wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Why do all eleventy-billion of my contacts show up in the dialer instead of the relatively small handful who've got phone numbers? Because the Dialer app is listing all of your contacts, because it serves as both the Dialer and the Contacts app all rolled into one. - Why the @#$% doesn't this thing have a proper headphone jack? Yell at HTC, not Android. - How do I sync music between my computer and my G1? Plug the…

That, my friends, is what's called "missing the forest for the trees." Yes, every single one of my question has an easy answer. Yup, just need to install this app or activate this hidden preference or tweak my Xorg.conf, or learn to live with the problem... Using this device is like the death of a thousand cuts. None are even remotely fatal, but over time there's just a mounting list of little annoyances. Everything'…

The cut that slices the deepest: The iPhone is only available on the crappiest network in the world.