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Programming Is a Dead End Job

thecodist.com

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Re: Programming Is a Dead End Job

#51

Post by noname123 »

untog wrote: post #29
kumbasha wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, without all of the actual programmers you would have no product and no profits at all. Neither group can function without the other, and pay should reflect that rather than the ridiculously unequal spread we just automatically accept as normal.

Yes and no. It might be an unpopular opinion (and I'm a programmer myself) but 80% of programmers are relatively easily replaceable, particularly in large organisations. There are indispensable unique unicorns out there, but they tend to be well compensated. When a project is managed by one manager and coded by five developers, you could easily lose replace two of those developers with little impact. If you lost the…

Managers aren't useless. They are just a sub-specie of human beings who happen to have the audacity and lack of moral fiber to exploit other people. I for one, upvote them in the name of genetic diversity!

Developers on the other hand are the worker-bees/ants. Individually replaceable but as a collective, the backbone of an colony/swarm! A queen bee cannot survive without its attendants.

Marx got it all wrong, the owners who provides the means of productions and the proletariat who provides the labor are partners in hand.

Why are some people so individualistic to nitpick on why they make $80K yr and drive a Prius vs. someone else who makes $250K and drives a E-class, when we are all together in this together for the same goal for the greater good of the same collective, for the investors and maximizing the shareholder value???

Re: Programming Is a Dead End Job

#52

Post by WalterBright »

noir_lord wrote: post #3
paulhauggis wrote: post #2

If you expect to get rich working for someone else, you will be disappointed. Everywhere I've worked, things start out great. You get to work on new and exciting projects. Then, new management comes in or your boss makes crazy development decisions and your project becomes a sinking ship. I just dropped a contract that was exactly this. I got tired of being forced to make bad decisions, which I know will lead to the…

I also own my company, there is a limit to your salary in one direction, Zero.

If you do own your own company, you do wind up being paid exactly what you're worth :-)

Re: Programming Is a Dead End Job

#53

Post by mmcconnell1618 »

boolean wrote: post #20

Anyone who has transitioned from programming job to a managerial role, how did you do it? Do you recommend going back to school for an MBA? Would love to hear suggestions.

I ran my own company for 12 years which probably helped. Took a contracting role at a Fortune 500. Took extra time to come up with suggestions to managers on how to improve the overall development team. Left when the contract was over. 3 months later a management position opened up and the development manager asked me to interview for it.

One of the best ways to get a new position is to start performing the work of that position before you have it. If you're already doing to the work you can remove the risk in figuring out if you'll be capable in the new position.

Re: Programming Is a Dead End Job

#55

Post by WalterBright »

jw2013 wrote: post #36

No offense to the author, but what a terribly written article full of logic holes. For example: 'Our parent company's former CEO started off as a programmer 25 years ago, switched to manager; in 15 years he went all the way to being CEO of a $4B company. After 10 years he retired recently with mansions and cars and no worries. Meanwhile I work with people who started around the same time and who are still senior soft…

> The chance of a person working on a corporate managerial job evetually becomes a CEO

Simple mathematics shows it is very unlikely for any random person to become a CEO. After all, if everyone is a CEO, who is being managed?

Re: Programming Is a Dead End Job

#56

Post by saraid216 »

mturmon wrote: post #26
declan wrote: post #9

It's a well-written essay (I say this as someone who has been a journalist/editor/manager and is now doing quite a bit of programming again for Recent.io). But really you could say the same thing about many other jobs: * Do you love to report the news? In most jobs as long as you continue to be a reporter you will likely have a limited set of promotions you can get... * Do you love woodworking? In most jobs as long a…

A cynical take on your observations sometimes occurs to me, and seems pertinent. The managers set the wages. Therefore, they will be well-paid, and their contributions will readily recognized. This is simplistic and does not explain everything, but I think it is a major ingredient.

> The managers set the wages. Therefore, they will be well-paid, and their contributions will readily recognized.

It really depends on the managers. We live in a culture that rewards paying oneself well, even to the detriment of others' pay. Root cause analysis.

Re: Programming Is a Dead End Job

#57

Post by dpweb »

After almost two decades, still like coding but want to do more management. The technical stuff is still great, but you don't get a say in the direction of the organization.

Non-technical business types don't appreciate the art and beauty, and history - of the craft.

Re: Programming Is a Dead End Job

#58

Post by personZ »

but it's still pretty limited compared to what being an executive or manager can make

If you're just going to arbitrarily pick some hypothetical comparison, sure, it's limited. But that isn't a useful contrast.

Most managers are in dead-end jobs themselves (the mere facet of the pyramid dictates this). Very few rise higher, and are more likely to have young upstarts jump above them. Most make fairly poor pay -- I worked as a dev lead at a bank and was at a pay scale that put me above every single non senior VP or above in the entire organization.

50,000+ employees. My pay as a developer was in a band normally reserved for a small handful of executives. The very, very few who went the management route and won the lottery, so to speak.

I absolutely love this profession, and have resisted all paths that would pull me out of it. I make great money for doing something I love.

Re: Programming Is a Dead End Job

#59

Post by ryandrake »

I wouldn't call it "dead end" but outside of a few rare companies, programming has a fairly impenetrable salary/advancement ceiling. I loved software development, still do, but it's the kind of career where you max out your salary after about 4-5 years. So, I reluctantly moved in to various flavors of management. Still code little projects at home on the weekends, but unfortunately not as a job anymore.

I'd love to go back to work as a programmer (still keeping my skills sharp and up-to-date just in case), but the best gigs available promise the same title/salary 5 years on.

Re: Programming Is a Dead End Job

#60

Post by at-fates-hands »

The author has a point, and one of the keys here is that the hierarchy for developer is pretty flat. All the jobs I've had except one very small startup the structure was like this:

Entry Level Developer (coding 100% of the time)

Senior Developer (coding 50%, managing 50%)

Manager, Lead Developer, etc. (managing 100%)

from the time you take a senior position, you're essentially being groomed to manage the team you're on. Whether you're another level between developers and your director/manager or simply the manager, you essentially stop coding.

I think this is the point. It's not so much that programming is a dead end, the inherit structure of most companies is flat relative to the position. It's an interesting idea, how do you give a guy seniority and a nice pay raise, without taking away what he probably loves to do? Obviously for most companies, it means increased responsibility and pay = managerial tasks.

For the last several years, I've been in this purgatory. I love programming, but every senior position means a reduction in my development role and an increase in managerial responsibility. The problem now is my skillset is at a place where I'm pretty much at the ceiling. It's hard to say, "I have a senior level skill set, but don't want to be a manager." I know my two options are to either bite the bullet and get into management (which to me is like adult daycare) or start my own company.

As of now, I'm already laying the groundwork for a startup, so I can transition out and do my own thing in the next two years.

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