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How to tell when someone is lying?

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Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#61

Post by User9821 »

mapleoin wrote: post #32

Hardly anyone refrains from lying altogether, and some people report lying up to twelve times within that time span. I might open a conversation, for instance, by saying how nice it is to meet someone—when I’m really not at all happy about it. I might go on to say that I grew up in Boston—a lie, technically, since I really grew up in a small town about forty minutes outside the city. I could say that the person’s wor…

It's people trying to be polite. If someone has a great time at a restaurant, do I really want to stop and tell them about my poor experience there? If we're openly discussing restaurants, then yes, I'll offer my story, but if someone is talking about their date last night, or lunch they took their coworkers too, etc, I don't want to insult their choice in restaurants, especially in front of others.

It's going to be different in Eastern Europe because there's more tradition. Compare it to older generations in America. I know my grandparents would never sugar coat a story, and if I said I had a great time at a restaurant, they would have no trouble interrupting to talk about that time they got food poisoning there, or saw a mouse on the floor.

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#62

Post by User9821 »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #60
ZenPro wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite - The technique you refer to already exists. It is distinct from reverse chronological. Approaches are numerous and to the layman the differences seem like semantics but they each have a specific use (I went into some detail on another answer above). However, something like "did you forget to call me last night?" is not a great example. The RC technique works for complex scenarios such as an individual lyin…

That works against a remarkably stupid questioner who repeats the same question. More efficiently, so does this: Did you steal it? >> No Did you steal it? >> What makes you think asking the same question again will get a different answer? Did you steal it? (Silence) And in a court, the second question would prompt an objection of "asked and answered" for the same reason. On the other hand, a better questioner would a…

Or go in circles.

A: Ok, you didn't steal it, but where were you last night?

B: I went out after I had dinner to meet my friend Bob for a drink.

Fast forward 20 minutes...

A: So let me confirm this one more time, you were busy last night, had dinner with your friend Bob, then went out for a drink?

Gauge their response, see if they correct you and say no, they met Bob after dinner, sticking to their original facts.

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#63

Post by girvo »

ZenPro wrote: post #22
saraid216 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To generalize the technique, it's basically (1) solicit detail repetitively and (2) wait for contradictions to show up in large quantities. It's most effective in specific situations, like interrogations, because you have an important subject under discussion for which the lies pertain to. In a setting like, say, "did you forget to call me last night?" it pays to remember that everyone lies instinctively and if you t…

Not quite - The technique you refer to already exists. It is distinct from reverse chronological. Approaches are numerous and to the layman the differences seem like semantics but they each have a specific use (I went into some detail on another answer above). However, something like "did you forget to call me last night?" is not a great example. The RC technique works for complex scenarios such as an individual lyin…

That technique is indeed the best. It creates another reality in the mind of the other person, where they doubt their own mind, solely by refuses to give any ground whatsoever. Quite manipulative, but effective.

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#64

Post by analog31 »

ZenPro wrote: post #15

As a former MI interrogator, this was part of my skillset. For the average layman looking to spot lies within a complex story there is an exceptionally simply method known as reverse chronological testing It works best for people you know are purposefully lying and you need a hook or a fallacy for proof. 1. Ask the person to recount their version of events. >> Oh so you went out with the girls at 7pm, then what happe…

I have a harder time reciting the alphabet backwards than forwards.

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#65

Post by saraid216 »

ZenPro wrote: post #22
saraid216 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To generalize the technique, it's basically (1) solicit detail repetitively and (2) wait for contradictions to show up in large quantities. It's most effective in specific situations, like interrogations, because you have an important subject under discussion for which the lies pertain to. In a setting like, say, "did you forget to call me last night?" it pays to remember that everyone lies instinctively and if you t…

Not quite - The technique you refer to already exists. It is distinct from reverse chronological. Approaches are numerous and to the layman the differences seem like semantics but they each have a specific use (I went into some detail on another answer above). However, something like "did you forget to call me last night?" is not a great example. The RC technique works for complex scenarios such as an individual lyin…

> However, something like "did you forget to call me last night?" is not a great example.

I bring this up more because this is the kind of thing most people are interested in lie detection for, and they're hoping to get an excuse to say "Aha! I caught you!" as if that was proof of anything.

Most people aren't in MI, or police detectives, which is the lion's share of relevance.

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#66

Post by timbre »

mapleoin wrote: post #32

Hardly anyone refrains from lying altogether, and some people report lying up to twelve times within that time span. I might open a conversation, for instance, by saying how nice it is to meet someone—when I’m really not at all happy about it. I might go on to say that I grew up in Boston—a lie, technically, since I really grew up in a small town about forty minutes outside the city. I could say that the person’s wor…

From the article:

> ... we lie, on average, three times during a routine ten-minute conversation with a stranger or casual acquaintance. Hardly anyone refrains from lying altogether, and some people report lying up to twelve times within that time span.

It sounds like there's a large variance; maybe the author is on the "twelve times" side of the distribution. Or maybe I'm naive. I can't imagine telling someone I like a restaurant just because he does, or giving a false compliment without a concrete reason.

(I'm American.)

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#67

Post by torbit »

Destitute wrote: post #49

Here is the video that Brinke saw and identified her as lying, can you? http://vimeo.com/55997359

Her eyebrows are always high and apart (surprised). At the end she shakes her head when she says "it is hard not knowing where you kid is", but it is delayed so it can mean nothing.

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#68

Post by justinreeves »

conanbatt wrote: post #56
mrcdima wrote: post #16

After reading all of Paul Ekman's books, watching all episodes of Lie to Me, and reading various other pop-science books, articles, posts, and so on, all on body language and lie detection, the only honest conclusion I could reach was that if you really want to know if someone's lying you better know the truth beforehand. Though there is some science to the method, it ultimately relies on very complex combinations of…

I read once that experienced detectives are worse at telling lies than rookies. The article theorized that old-timey detectives get very confident on their intuition and experience, so they assume they are right on a hunch sooner than rookies. The latter, unexperienced as they are,look harder at the facts and are more humble about guessing right or wrong. There is something dangerous in believing you have the key to…

>Criminal profilers might qualify as experts in court, saying someone "fits the profile", helping the state make a case, while their profiling could be totally wrong, as it was in the famous sniper case, where they went with the classic "middle aged caucasian" and the killer was black and with his son(?) as an accomplice.

What case is this? Also, is "middle ages caucasian" some kind of trope in police investigations? I wasn't aware it was…

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#69

Post by sirdogealot »

Maybe it's just that the article was written by a woman. (As I could easily see my significant other behaving in this manner when she was "out with her girlfriends".) But, does anybody on HN actually relate to this paragraph below?

>I might open a conversation, for instance, by saying how nice it is to meet someone—when I’m really not at all happy about it. I might go on to say that I grew up in Boston—a lie, technically, since I really grew up in a small town about forty minutes outside the city. I could say that the person’s work sounds fascinating, when it’s no such thing, or compliment him on his (drab) tie or his (awful) shirt. And if the person mentions loving a certain downtown restaurant where I’ve had a terrible experience? I’m likely to just smile and nod and say, Yes, great place.

I am proud to say that I relate to none of those examples.

I would usually say "it was nice to meet you" when somebody I just met was parting ways just as a pleasantry that has to be said, not that I meant it. And not that the other person would assume that I actually genuinely meant that either. Ending a meeting with "It was nice to meet you" seems just as natural and called for as starting out with "Hello, my name is sirdogealot". Who goes home thrilled or even remembering the fact that somebody they met that day said "Nice to meet you"?

I always am truthful about where I am from. If the person has never heard of my small home town, I would explain it's location to them.

I wouldn't lie and say somebody's work sounds fascinating if it wasn't. If you haul boxes or flip burgers, I don't really care to hear about your job or your problems at work. In fact I find I don't congregate with people who hold boring jobs. It just gets too tedious hearing that you are unhappy and yet not bright enough to realize it and quit.

I would never compliment somebody on their clothing if they actually looked like shit unless they I was trying to cheer them up, hit on them or get a job or something.

If somebody suggests a terrible restaurant, I'll let them know why it's a bad choice. Like the restaurant that served me ants in my stir fry, or the place that gave me food poisoning on Christmas eve one year? No, I'm not eating at those places again. I don't care if I'm trying to win over my girlfriend's parents. If a place is shit I'll call it shit.

Does the author think that her checkout clerk is lying to her when they systematically grunt out "have a nice day" as they pass her her grocery bags?

Do you think the kid at the McDonald's counter is mocking you when he smiles at you?

Do you think I'm lying to you when you ask "How are you doing?" and I only ever respond with "Oh, pretty good! How are you doing?" I might say that if I just woke up in the morning or if I had just been in a car crash but I'm not lying. I know that most people don't care to hear about your problems. So I don't bother them with them.

Society is weird. There are a lot of odd things we do in society but I wouldn't misconstrue them all as lying.

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#70

Post by sachitgupta »

pdeuchler wrote: post #6
vonnik wrote: post #3

The article's OK, but it doesn't actually deliver on the headline by illustrating the "tells" of a lie. This book is much more practical. http://www.amazon.com/Spy-Lie-Former-Officers-Deception/dp/1... One of the most interesting ideas is that no single tells indicates a lie, but clusters of them together are strong signals. A few would be: 1) pausing before you answer (lies take longer to compose than truths); 2) to…

This might be somewhat of an unfortunate list, as I tend to do 1, 2, 3, and 5 when I'm answering a nuanced question that requires a careful answer (i.e. non-technical family member asking if it's really possible for the NSA to spy on all of us)

Part of using these to test lies requires first establishing a baseline. For instance, they would ask:

- What's your name? Where were you born? How much do you weigh? (or similar questions to understand your non-verbal).

It's super super important to first establish that baseline.

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