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It's Different for Girls

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Re: It's Different for Girls

#31
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then you have people like me who consider trolling to be the single best way of bonding with people. I don't think I could work with a person I can't say offensive things to and who doesn't say offensive things back. Maybe I'm just too European, I don't know.

Are you a person of color? Are you a woman? Are you gay? Are you trans? Are you disabled? Not trolling, genuinely curious. Edit: I can't reply to the children (might be my karma game) and so I'll reply here. The linked article is about specifically about power and privilege, and how being a woman in the tech business puts you at a severe disadvantage in your job, in your community of choice. The reason why I ask is j…

> Are you a person of color? Are you a woman? Are you gay? Are you trans? Are you disabled?

Does it matter?

Re: It's Different for Girls

#32
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then you have people like me who consider trolling to be the single best way of bonding with people. I don't think I could work with a person I can't say offensive things to and who doesn't say offensive things back. Maybe I'm just too European, I don't know.

Are you a person of color? Are you a woman? Are you gay? Are you trans? Are you disabled? Not trolling, genuinely curious. Edit: I can't reply to the children (might be my karma game) and so I'll reply here. The linked article is about specifically about power and privilege, and how being a woman in the tech business puts you at a severe disadvantage in your job, in your community of choice. The reason why I ask is j…

Those don't matter and what you are doing is generalizing lots of groups of people which is something I assume you would be against. What matters is individuals. Some gay people don't mind jokes about being gay, some do. Some women don't mind jokes about gender, some do. If you are a in a professional setting you NEVER lead with a joke about something personal or potentially controversial if you are not among very very good friends. These topics, along with things like religion and politics, should just not be joked about in a professional setting. If I'm a white male is it ok to joke about my baldness? My religion? My weight? That's my point. It doesn't matter who you are, you don't bring things like that up in a professional setting.

Re: It's Different for Girls

#33
post #7

Speaking as a privileged cis straight white male under 40 here, can we at least as a community agree to roast assholes who sexually harass our female compatriots alive? If I ever caught someone I know pulling shit like that, I would make it my personal mission to wreck their reputation and end their career. I realize that's not going to level the playing field completely, but I cannot believe stories like this still…

i'm incredibly reluctant to post in threads like this, but I think this attitude is actually hurting diversity in the industry: excessive "chivalry" by males gives more of an illusion of preferential treatment when women stand up to discrimination, which is just more fuel for the gender war fire. women need our support, not our defense. it's fine to be outraged, but your response should not be to go on the offensive.

Attitudes like this are why stories like this still happen in 2014.

Re: It's Different for Girls

#34
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then you have people like me who consider trolling to be the single best way of bonding with people. I don't think I could work with a person I can't say offensive things to and who doesn't say offensive things back. Maybe I'm just too European, I don't know.

Actually, I think you are just socially inept.

You'd be surprised by how deep a connection you can form with somebody through ribbing.

Re: It's Different for Girls

#35
It pains and somewhat embarrasses me that I am not recommending calling out bad behavior and shaming the individual or individuals responsible. In a perfect world people would have to account for their behavior. But as an entrepreneur who spent years in a daily battle for existence, I did not feel like I could afford the hit I’d take in exposing these incidents.

I agree with her and I blog about such things. I could not have returned to Hacker News had I begun attacking men publicly for some of the shit that has gone down. I am glad to be back and I think I did the right thing, not "morally" but pragmatically.

In many situations, my answer is, you have to simply walk away.

I am still working on trying to blog about other options, not just walking away and not having a shitshow. I struggle with it. My last few posts on the topic have not gotten any attention. I wish I knew how to get some additional feedback so I could figure out how to communicate more effectively. Some of that is just happenstance -- I have had a rough month and just haven't been at my best for writing -- but some of that is that many of the things I want to discuss frequently either get attacked or dismissed. It is thus difficult to get good constructive feedback. It is such a hot button issue for so many people. Perhaps in the future I can figure out how to invite more meaty discussion and feedback. I am certainly not just looking for fanlike adulation and the opposite -- the ugly attacks, where my thoughts are not taken seriously at all -- is generally useless for determining how to communicate more effectively.

I am glad to see this here. She was a CEO and has bigger public accomplishments under her belt (than I do). It gives some of the principles I am trying to promote more credibility. My lack of public stature makes it all too easy for a lot of people to ignore and dismiss me.

Re: It's Different for Girls

#36
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then you have people like me who consider trolling to be the single best way of bonding with people. I don't think I could work with a person I can't say offensive things to and who doesn't say offensive things back. Maybe I'm just too European, I don't know.

Actually, I think you are just socially inept.

[deleted]

Re: It's Different for Girls

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you a person of color? Are you a woman? Are you gay? Are you trans? Are you disabled? Not trolling, genuinely curious. Edit: I can't reply to the children (might be my karma game) and so I'll reply here. The linked article is about specifically about power and privilege, and how being a woman in the tech business puts you at a severe disadvantage in your job, in your community of choice. The reason why I ask is j…

Although I'm not in particular agreement with the OP, your reply is hardly accurate, either. Are you implying that these groups are incapable of making and handling crude/dark humor?

Either that, or that membership in one of them includes some sort of special permission to use humor more broadly than is allowed to people who don't have any boxes to check.

Re: It's Different for Girls

#38
post #7

Speaking as a privileged cis straight white male under 40 here, can we at least as a community agree to roast assholes who sexually harass our female compatriots alive? If I ever caught someone I know pulling shit like that, I would make it my personal mission to wreck their reputation and end their career. I realize that's not going to level the playing field completely, but I cannot believe stories like this still…

i'm incredibly reluctant to post in threads like this, but I think this attitude is actually hurting diversity in the industry: excessive "chivalry" by males gives more of an illusion of preferential treatment when women stand up to discrimination, which is just more fuel for the gender war fire. women need our support, not our defense. it's fine to be outraged, but your response should not be to go on the offensive.

If women can't speak up, lest they be further marginalized, and men can't speak up, lest they add more fuel, what can be done?...

(Not that I disagree at all! Serious question.)

Re: It's Different for Girls

#39
post #9

Lack of diversity in the tech industry truly saddens me. I love technology, and I want to encourage everyone else to discover how magical it is. It's a tragedy that the industry can be so hostile to some, for apparently no reason. But as a white male, I feel powerless to do anything. I can't speak for women, or for other races, or really for anyone else. I want to help fix this, but where do I begin?

You can educate yourself and others! There are lots of resources for learning how to do more, including speaking up to other men and putting some money toward supporting people who are making a difference. Here's an article with a bunch of options ("What Can Men Do? Men working with other men against patriarchy in technology"): https://medium.com/tech-culture-briefs/a1e93d985af0 - and here's an allies training worksh…

I'm curious about how controversial this post seems. It has been bouncing back and forth from light gray to black. Is it that people disagree with educating others? That they have a knee-jerk reaction to the word "patriarchy" and dismiss anyone who uses it? That they idea of "allies training" is somehow repulsive and unfair?

Re: It's Different for Girls

#40
post #33
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'm incredibly reluctant to post in threads like this, but I think this attitude is actually hurting diversity in the industry: excessive "chivalry" by males gives more of an illusion of preferential treatment when women stand up to discrimination, which is just more fuel for the gender war fire. women need our support, not our defense. it's fine to be outraged, but your response should not be to go on the offensive.

Attitudes like this are why stories like this still happen in 2014.

Attitudes like what?
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