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YCRFS 1: The Future of Journalism

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Re: YCRFS 1: The Future of Journalism

#51

Post by dsplittgerber »

catch23 wrote: post #49
dsplittgerber wrote: post #47

Houndreds of startups are already on work at this one. Thousands of articles and proposals have been written about the problem. Yet no one seems able to describe in only a few lines a business model that does not involve just tossing out a few en-vogue words and other business bs like "revolutionary features" and "bundling" and "freemium". These are not a solution in themselves! Or am I the only one who sees it this…

the google founders were able to easily explain "PageRank" in just a few words, yet nobody considered their approach during the era of Altavista & Hotbot. There might be a simple & obvious solution out there, but nobody has attempted it yet.

Yes, exactly my point. It will be a simple & obvious (with hindsight!) solution. I'm just saying that if it were possible with the current ideas floating around (not just here), it would already have been done.

Re: YCRFS 1: The Future of Journalism

#52

Post by danielfranz »

onreact-com wrote: post #50
danielfranz wrote: post #42

Somebody just wrote that there is good old common-sense economics at work. I’d say the subprime crisis is also good old common-sense economics at work. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a healthy thing and it's good for the industry, for the economy or for society as a whole. Quality journalism plays a critical role in our society. In every society - that includes the ones in "Western" states. The death of a newspap…

As far as I understand something similar already exists, at least twice. I only remember the whereabouts of one of those. It's a service launched recently by the people from Clicky Analytics. It's called Contenture. See here: http://contenture.com/ http://getclicky.com/blog/164/announcing-contenturecom-a-new...

Hi onreact-com. I am aware of them and a dozen others offering similar services. I'd like to point out that tracking and micropayment solutions would indeed be part of my model in the long run. But they are just infrastructure - they're not the core of my concept. My idea is about user experience. About changing the way readers consume content. Why would someone use services like Contenture or Kachingle or..? Because they're willing to pay for a certain product or service. Therefore, in order to establish a broad base of users who'd actually do that we need to develop a product they like. Something with added value. Personalization. Mobility. Something better than a single publishing company is able to develop. Something that makes a lot of publishers pull the same string even though they're competitors in their respective markets.

Re: YCRFS 1: The Future of Journalism

#53

Post by danielfranz »

Alex3917 wrote: post #45
danielfranz wrote: post #42

Somebody just wrote that there is good old common-sense economics at work. I’d say the subprime crisis is also good old common-sense economics at work. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a healthy thing and it's good for the industry, for the economy or for society as a whole. Quality journalism plays a critical role in our society. In every society - that includes the ones in "Western" states. The death of a newspap…

I completely agree with your solution. This is what I wrote on my blog in 2005: "...Then charge an additional five dollars per month. Of those five dollars, keep one dollar for the company and distribute the remaining four dollars to content providers like a pie. For example, if a user subscribes to four websites, then each of those websites gets a dollar per month. Or if that same user subscribes to eight websites,…

Sounds like a good plan! My experience tells me that you have to be very careful when mixing bloggers and journalists from publishing companies (if that's what you intend to do). A lot of journalists perceive bloggers as a threat. Although that seems naive I think it's a normal reaction.

In my view it's necessary to involve bloggers but I don't think of them as journalists. They have other principles of investigating and sourcing and a different style of writing. Don't get me wrong, they're important and the fact that free blog providers enable potentially anyone out there to speak their minds on the big stage is a small revolution. Although not on one level with Gutenberg or the invention of the Net itself, like some say. But bloggers certainly are not the key to saving traditional journalism :)

Re: YCRFS 1: The Future of Journalism

#54

Post by danielfranz »

danielfranz wrote: post #42

Somebody just wrote that there is good old common-sense economics at work. I’d say the subprime crisis is also good old common-sense economics at work. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a healthy thing and it's good for the industry, for the economy or for society as a whole. Quality journalism plays a critical role in our society. In every society - that includes the ones in "Western" states. The death of a newspap…

Another general comment: I think it's quite simple: the content itself is not the issue here. There are a lot of big publishers out there offering really fast really high-quality news content following journalistic standards. The issue is the lack of a business model appropriate to the current technology. Therefore I think the key is distribution and presentation of the content and the development of services around it - not changing the content. Especially not in order to be more attractive to advertisers.

Re: YCRFS 1: The Future of Journalism

#55

Post by onreact-com »

danielfranz wrote: post #52
onreact-com wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I understand something similar already exists, at least twice. I only remember the whereabouts of one of those. It's a service launched recently by the people from Clicky Analytics. It's called Contenture. See here: http://contenture.com/ http://getclicky.com/blog/164/announcing-contenturecom-a-new...

Hi onreact-com. I am aware of them and a dozen others offering similar services. I'd like to point out that tracking and micropayment solutions would indeed be part of my model in the long run. But they are just infrastructure - they're not the core of my concept. My idea is about user experience. About changing the way readers consume content. Why would someone use services like Contenture or Kachingle or..? Because…

Yeah, makes sense. Contenture already offers some enhancements for paying users as well. They're not as advanced as you propose but they go in the right direction.

Your idea is very good but I guess it needs one or two years to become a product or service, by then Contenture will have evolved into something similar I guess.

Re: YCRFS 1: The Future of Journalism

#56

Post by Alex3917 »

danielfranz wrote: post #53
Alex3917 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree with your solution. This is what I wrote on my blog in 2005: "...Then charge an additional five dollars per month. Of those five dollars, keep one dollar for the company and distribute the remaining four dollars to content providers like a pie. For example, if a user subscribes to four websites, then each of those websites gets a dollar per month. Or if that same user subscribes to eight websites,…

Sounds like a good plan! My experience tells me that you have to be very careful when mixing bloggers and journalists from publishing companies (if that's what you intend to do). A lot of journalists perceive bloggers as a threat. Although that seems naive I think it's a normal reaction. In my view it's necessary to involve bloggers but I don't think of them as journalists. They have other principles of investigating…

"But bloggers certainly are not the key to saving traditional journalism."

I disagree. It will be far easier to convert bloggers than newspaper owners. And if newspaper owners see that bloggers are making more money than they are, they will eventually join as well.

The problem with starting with newspapers is that you'd need a critical mass, and that's very hard when you have 1,000+ players who each have a six-month sales cycle.

With bloggers, on the other hand, there are only a few key players and because each outfit is only a handful of people the sales cycle is only a few days at most. Unless I'm missing something, trying to sell to newspapers would be an enormous mistake.

Re: YCRFS 1: The Future of Journalism

#57

Post by danielfranz »

ubernostrum wrote: post #30

"Journalism" isn't going to be saved by data mining or algorithms or nice design. It is not going to be saved by "hyperlocal" reporting. It is not going to be saved by per-user customizable topical filters. It is not going to be saved by search systems and RSS feeds for your neighborhood. It is not going to be saved by content federation. It is not going to be saved by mashups. It is not going to be saved by APIs. It…

I strongly disagree. Can you define "useful content" in the context of journalism? Is it content that makes advertisers pay in order to put their ads next to it? That's not journalism! Even if it was, the online ad revenue wouldn't be enough to pay real investigative journalism.

Also you wrote "if you're not producing things people want, or if you're spending too much money to do it, you lose and someone else will take your place". That's right. But it should be our task to prevent that. A radical consolidation on the news market until just a few papers are left is not an option. This market is different to the one for chocolate or cars. This is about a vital variety of opinions and views.

A consolidation of opinions is not what we want. Trust me, I am German, it happened here some 80 years ago...

Re: YCRFS 1: The Future of Journalism

#58

Post by BearOfNH »

TomOfTTB wrote: post #28
jfornear wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is definitely money to be made from empowering journalists. But the underlying problem has to be solved on their end first, and all they need is pen and paper. We can build things like Wordpress VIP, but ultimately it's up to CNN to provide the content that makes or breaks the final product. The Internet is the new printing press. Paper is out, and bits are in. I think what PG is asking for is some kind of magi…

I think you're over estimating a lot of journalists. I know several of them (who work for the 2nd largest paper in the world no-less) who can barely operate Word much less set up a Wordpress account. Other than that I'd agree with you. It is Journalist's job to do the actual reinventing and they're no where close now. I just don't think they're capable enough to take the current generation of tools and build what the…

As I pointed out in a response elsewhere (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=763613) I think a YC startup should supply the toolkit, a turnkey newspaper-in-a-box application.

Admittedly this is not something that journalists would or could use. Despite being (say) as easy as Wordpress, it just won't fit into today's journalist's worldview. But that's OK, journalists as we know them are a dying breed -- many just don't know it yet.

What could happen is (a) the rise of a new class of low-cost, low-profit "mini-publishers" using new turnkey applications to design content+layouts that appeal to their target audience. Then (b) what we think of today as "journalists", both newswriters and columnists, will disappear from the "news" industry. Columnists have already largely gone to blog but the newswriters have yet to change. My guess is that change will be forced upon them, and newswriters who want to continue in journalism will need to adapt. How? Possibly by becoming their own newswire. Instead of a few large wire services (AP and ilk) we will see thousands of individual "wire services", basically individuals covering local, family and/or specialty events. Few if any will be making a lot of money at this, but that's because of the economics of Internet news. The days of Clark Gable (and Clark Kent) journalism are over.

The key to all this is having a turnkey newspaper-in-a-box application that lets wannabe publishers design their own interfaces, choose their own content suppliers and publish on their own schedule. That's what YC should be funding. It's where the money (if any) will be made.

It also occurs to me that there is a business opportunity in helping folks start their own mini-wire-services. Structure the whole thing from scratch. Standardized processes for submission of news articles plus standardized usage and reimbursement terms (Michael Yon might be able to charge more than Jan Michael), but the process of choosing and using their output would be the same.

Maybe that's not the correct vision of the future, but I'm still sure the profession of "journalist" is going to change. Throw out today's molds and take a stab at what makes most sense to you. There's a fistful of dollars somewhere in there.

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