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Amazon's Stressed Out Culture Is Burning Out Employees

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Re: Amazon's Stressed Out Culture Is Burning Out Employees

#21

The original article on which this article is based[1] has an interesting chart of median employee tenure for various companies. Amazon is at the bottom, with the median employee leaving after only one year. Google is not much better, with a median employee staying 1.1 years. In contrast, Microsoft employees stay 4 years and IBM employees 6.4 years. [1] http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-10-10/jeff-bezos-a...

The chart has the useful footnote that it, "does not account for overall growth in workforce" which penalizes companies with quickly growing headcounts. I'd also guess Amazon's warehouse staff has more churn that a technology company and they are a large portion of the overall workforce there.

Re: Amazon's Stressed Out Culture Is Burning Out Employees

#22

The original article on which this article is based[1] has an interesting chart of median employee tenure for various companies. Amazon is at the bottom, with the median employee leaving after only one year. Google is not much better, with a median employee staying 1.1 years. In contrast, Microsoft employees stay 4 years and IBM employees 6.4 years. [1] http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-10-10/jeff-bezos-a...

The chart has the useful footnote that it, "does not account for overall growth in workforce" which penalizes companies with quickly growing headcounts. I'd also guess Amazon's warehouse staff has more churn that a technology company and they are a large portion of the overall workforce there.

We have a fair number of ex-Amazonians at work and they all complain about the work culture there, so I do believe it may well be that bad.

Re: Amazon's Stressed Out Culture Is Burning Out Employees

#23

Is there anything wrong with the CEO forwarding an email, adding just a question mark? It is shorthand for "Can you please tell me what is going on here and how it can be taken care of?". It isn't like if he typed out a whole sentence, it would cause the person who panics at a "?" to somehow not panic. They'll probably just read too much into the sentence and panic even more.

As someone who was on a team that got these "?" emails quite a bit, it isn't the email that was the problem. It was the culture that you will drop whatever you are doing to answer this one very specific question that was the problem.

Now my team had a very good manager who knew the system and pipeline. So if he was 95% sure he knew the answer, we never got the email. If he didn't, he would forward it onto the oncall. And the oncall might forward it onto someone else if they were busy with a Sev1/2 issue.

But it was expected that you would drop what you were doing and answer. I've seen devs get up during the middle of lunch and go back to the office to answer a Bezos question.

Re: Amazon's Stressed Out Culture Is Burning Out Employees

#24

For what it's worth, as someone who did two internships there, the whole "Amazonians hate their job" thing is way overrated. With the exception of pager duty, most of the legitimate complaints employees used to make have long been addressed. I've interned at other big tech companies too, and Amazon stands out in my mind as having some of the highest morale. Here's another interesting data point: both of my teams at A…

I also did two internship at Amazon and had a different experience. There's probably a ton of people who love their job and a ton who "hate" their job -- it's a huge company and you're gonna find everyone. However, I do think that the culture has it's flaws, namely that the core values include frugality. Working at other startups and large companies I've seen a new way, a much better one. Amazon cuts on the expenses…

> 12 consecutive nights at work

It might have been a truely great experience, but just by the sound of it it's hard to endorse as a 'nice to be there' style of work. Did you have to convince your manager to let you do it, or was it just part of the ambient mood to stay so much?

Re: Amazon's Stressed Out Culture Is Burning Out Employees

#25
post #2

Dear God, is it that bad? Sounds awful. Does Bezos seriously forward any complaints received at jeff@amazon.com to the right person? I'll bet that is panic-inducing.

He generally sends it to a group email for all the Senior VPs. Based on the question in the email, 1 or more of the Senior VPs will take the issue and forward it onto their VPs, which gets forwarded to GMs, directors, etc. and finally ends up in the mailbox of a developer.

This is based off my knowledge from late-2003 through 2008. It may have changed by now.

Re: Amazon's Stressed Out Culture Is Burning Out Employees

#26
I work as an SDE I at Amazon. This article is pretty ridiculous.

1) I don't see anything wrong with the question mark emails. Amazon places huge emphasis on customer service, and Jeff rightfully wants to know why is this particular customer unhappy.

2) No perks. Yeah, good free food would be nice. But I'm cooking my own launches most of the time anyway.

3) My salary (as an SDE I, college grad) is almost exactly the same a good friend of mine (also a college grad) got at Google in California (his was 10% more to cover the CA income tax).

4) Not sure about the stacking program, never heard about it. I'm certainly not stressed that I have to be better than my peers so that I don't get fired.

5,6) 3 out of 6 points in the article center around Bezos. Your chances of running into any of those 3 issues are next to nil. Amazon != Bezos.

Re: Amazon's Stressed Out Culture Is Burning Out Employees

#27

Ahh, this explains why I, a web developer in the middle of the Canadian Prairies keeps getting hit up by Amazon's recruiters. Quite possibly they've poisoned their local talent pools so much they have to pull in naive people from out of market. Glad I saw this article - now I don't need to fret about whether I should respond to the email. Just the very fact this article was written signals enormous alarm bells for an…

You are very naive if simple blog spam articles like these influence you that much.

Re: Amazon's Stressed Out Culture Is Burning Out Employees

#28
This is a poor article. The article begins by claiming a "stressed out" culture is resulting in the factually low employee retention rate, but then goes on cite as evidence things like: no free cafeteria, average pay, and emails that report up the management chain, and that the CEO has a weird laugh. Of all the "evidence" listed, only the team darwinism and searing insults would contribute to a stressful environment. The rest are just random factoids of average employers.

I don't know if Amazon is stressful to work for, because I've never worked there and haven't talked to any friends about it in detail, and this article did not help at all to shed any light on that.

Re: Amazon's Stressed Out Culture Is Burning Out Employees

#30

For what it's worth, as someone who did two internships there, the whole "Amazonians hate their job" thing is way overrated. With the exception of pager duty, most of the legitimate complaints employees used to make have long been addressed. I've interned at other big tech companies too, and Amazon stands out in my mind as having some of the highest morale. Here's another interesting data point: both of my teams at A…

Ex-amazonian here, It really depends on the team. There's 2 types of crappy places to be at Amazon: the really important legacy system, or the we need to catch up with the competition product.

In the first case, there's no opportunity for really improving things, it's usually a small team which can really hamper your advancement, and it breaks constantly. You'll work a 40 hour week, but will get paged all the time and have lots of little emergencies.

The second is sexier, and a good opportunity to move up the ladder, but you'll be working 60-80 hour weeks, loads of crunch time, and suffer due to constantly shifting management as the team explodes in growth.

All that being said, there are a lot of good opportunities, especially for younger engineers. Provided you have a decent performance review, mobility is pretty easy, so if you're stuck on a shitty team, that can change after a year+. You'll want to find a team with a manager who's been around amazon for a little while. You're supposed to tell your current manager first that you're looking around at other opportunities, but in practice this is rarely done before all but securing a new position. I recommend the Rowhouse coffee shop for talking with potential future managers. It's usually pretty clear after 2 and has lots of little rooms and well shaded windows.

If you end up stuck on a shit team, without being able to move around, start looking around Seattle. Twitter, Google, Hulu and Facebook are all hiring here, and they all usually pay better, in addition to having better perks. It's quite something to interview at Google's offices and see the difference in culture. If you've just gotten a promotion, or shipped a major product, that's an ideal time to start talking with other potential employers.

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