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Why I Don't Drink

neal.is

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Re: Why I Don't Drink

#51

Post by joshlegs »

tomasien wrote: post #43
joshlegs wrote: post #23

I'm really with the author here. I don't drink much, and people usually ask me why when I'm out. I just don't find it all that enjoyable most of the time, to be honest. also, there's this: >There is a longer list of things I'd rather spend $100 on I just want to take a moment to suggest this as an alternative. http://www.amazon.com/Parker-Sonnet-Original-Matte-Fountain/...

I might use this comment to respond to every single person who uses the cost of alcohol as a reason not to drink saying "there are so many other things I'd rather buy.." LIKE WHAT? A PEN? That's a pen. You can never convince me that I should believe that pen is objectively more valuable than a night out treating friends. Forget it. If it's more valuable to YOU because you love pens and dislike drinking, fine, but thi…

It's all where you place your value at. Is that so hard to get? I like pens (yeah they're expensive pens). And folks like me obviously find value in things other than alcohol. Nobody's trying to say that drinking is worthless: it's just worthless to US. If you get enjoyment out of it, more power to you. I'm not sure why there's so much controversy about not liking the act of drinking :S :S

Re: Why I Don't Drink

#52

Post by whoismua »

First I respect his decision. For some it can addictive and if you feel like you can't control yourself it's best to avoid. However, he uses "getting drunk" and "drinking" interchangeably, there's a lot between those two points.

A drink a day, sometimes two, are not harmful. They will not really intoxicate you. Everyone else is drinking so any dumbing down is valid for anyone else. A drink are two is not unhealthy, maybe it's even healthy.

Re: Why I Don't Drink

#53

Post by kelnos »

mjn wrote: post #31
rdtsc wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> None of his points explain even from a personal perspective why he doesn't drin Doesn't it? [1] > It makes me feel bleh. Heck I would stop there. "Why don't you like ham and cheese sandwiches?" "It makes me feel bleh...". Ok case closed. [2] > Alcohol does not increase my enjoyment of activities. That is a response to the American cultural expectation perhaps. "You will have more fun when you drink". Well and he do…

Serve it in a bar at a social scene and it can set you back hundreds of dollars per session as he said. "Per session"?! My point is that his article is ostensibly about why he doesn't drink at all , but his bullet points only legitimately apply to why you shouldn't have 20 drinks in an outing . Having one or two beers at a bar in the U.S. will not set you back $100 (it'd have to be a pretty weird bar). The fact that…

$100 is certainly a bit on the high side, but I live somewhere where mixed drinks can cost $12 at nicer bars. Have 5 of those (not unreasonable if you go out around 6pm and stay out until 1-2am), throw in $15 worth of food (as the author mentioned), and you're up to $75. I tend not to go to bars that charge cover, but that could be anywhere from $5-$20, though usually if you arrive at a particular bar before 10pm or so, there's no cover charge.

So $100 may be slightly hyperbolic, but it can happen without too much difficulty, depending on your tastes. I happen to really enjoy Scotch, and whiskey in general. Go to a bar with a selection of mid- to high-end stuff, and that can run you $20+ per pour. I tend to drink them quite a bit slower, though.

But agreed that this doesn't answer why he doesn't drink at all, but is more an answer to the question of why he doesn't "go out drinking".

Re: Why I Don't Drink

#54

Post by mjn »

joshlegs wrote: post #28
mjn wrote: post #6

This feels like a very "American" article [1], in the way it frames the discussion. The intro suggests the author has a policy of not drinking at all (or only every few months), but most of the bullet points only apply to why you shouldn't binge-drink. I did not find anything in this article that applied to normal drinking. If you drink a glass of wine with lunch, and one or two with dinner, as a typical southern Eur…

This feels like a very "European" comment. Really the only thing you could nitpick is in points 7 and 9, because that's where he makes generalizations about alcohol's effects on others. Near as I can tell, the rest of the list is primarily about how it affects him as an individual. As far as alcohol being a depressant, that's pretty well established by now. I'm just not sure what exactly screams "American" about this…

Here are the points that to me only seem to apply to people irresponsibly binge-drinking:

#3 "expensive": I have never spent $100 when out drinking. You have to drink like a dozen beers to hit that, even if they're fancy craft beers. If you're really spending $100 on drinking, the issue is something other than drinking per se (either very expensive tastes in drinks, or binge drinking).

#4, "You slow down, you slur, you say dumb shit": If you drink a lot, sure, but most people do not slur their speech or act noticeably different after one or two beers.

#5: explicitly about "getting drunk", not about drinking alcohol in moderation

#7: drinking alcohol in moderation has generally been shown to be healthy, not unhealthy.

#8: "The day after is not worth it". Again, this only applies to binge-drinkers, not normal drinkers. You do not get a hangover from moderate alcohol consumption.

#9: "It turns some people into monsters", also something that only applies to excessive drinking. Having major personality changes from one or two drinks (vs. 6+) is quite rare.

My impression is that what the author really wants to explain is why he no longer engages in dozen-drink outings at a club, that result in a drunken stupor, large monetary expenditures, possibly unpleasant or regrettable social interactions, and day-or-more recovery. But most people who drink alcohol do not engage in that specific kind of drinking.

Re: Why I Don't Drink

#55

Post by m0nastic »

I don't drink very often anymore (maybe a few times a year). I've never liked the taste of most alcohol, so when I drink, it's generally just a lot of shots to get it down easiest. When I went out more, I drank more (the incredible effort I have to maintain to be around people is lessened if I'm drinking). As I got older, it seemed easier to just stop leaving my apartment, and I was never a fan of drinking at home.

I suppose somewhere in the back of my head I always worried about becoming an alcoholic (coming from a long line of stinking drunks), but thankfully, I don't really have any addiction issues.

I'll admit that it's probably a bad thing that so much of our culture is alcohol-centric, but I don't begrudge that other people just like drinking.

Re: Why I Don't Drink

#56

Post by kelnos »

sheetjs wrote: post #7

> Almost everyone will at some point ask me why I don't drink, which is fair considering it's engrained into human society. There should be no need to explain why you don't drink. Period. There's nothing wrong with not drinking and there's nothing weird about not drinking. If people are asking with any sort of condescension, you are probably spending time with the wrong people.

Explain != justify. Not drinking is, for better or worse, fairly unusual (at least in some circles). It's natural to be curious when someone says they don't drink. As long as the questioner is asking out of curiosity and not pre-judgment, I don't see anything wrong with it.

Re: Why I Don't Drink

#57

Post by kylec »

thret wrote: post #50
kylec wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not making an argument about nuanced tradeoffs, though. He's saying that he gets no benefit ("It makes me feel bleh", "Alcohol does not increase my enjoyment of activities") and that there are some drawbacks for him ("It dumbs you down", "It's expensive"). You might have different personal experiences with alcohol, but you can't deny the author his.

I find it hard to believe a glass of wine matched with dinner does not increase enjoyment of the activity. I realise taste is acquired but for someone who already drinks wine surely this is ignorance. I've seen someone order a $100 steak well-done. They may enjoy this meal, but they have no goddamn idea what they are missing.

In your case? Absolutely. In the average case? Probably. In his case? You have no way to know.

In my case, I don't like the taste of alcohol, to me it's very pungent. Also, I tend to run on the warmer side, and alcohol tends to heat me up even more. Therefore, for me, a glass of wine with dinner - "matched" or no - decreases my enjoyment of the activity.

Re: Why I Don't Drink

#58

Post by mjn »

jsaxton86 wrote: post #20
mjn wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of his points explain even from a personal perspective why he doesn't drink, though. Which of his bullet points explain the pros and cons of wine with dinner vs. not having wine with dinner?

"It is expensive." is definitely relevant. If my fiancee and I go out for dinner and we each have a couple of drinks, the tab at least doubles.

This is also my argument (100% serious) against restaurant meals: if I go out for a few drinks and get hungry enough to order some food, the tab at least doubles, sometimes triples (in Copenhagen, a burger costs as much as 3-5 beers). That's why it's important to learn to cook, so you can eat before going out and save significant money.

Re: Why I Don't Drink

#59

Post by kylec »

Thriptic wrote: post #40
sheetjs wrote: post #7

> Almost everyone will at some point ask me why I don't drink, which is fair considering it's engrained into human society. There should be no need to explain why you don't drink. Period. There's nothing wrong with not drinking and there's nothing weird about not drinking. If people are asking with any sort of condescension, you are probably spending time with the wrong people.

It's atypical behavior, and so people are naturally intrigued. Inquiry doesn't necessarily imply judgement, just curiosity.

Judgement abounds, though. Look no further than elsewhere in this comments section.

Re: Why I Don't Drink

#60

Post by joshlegs »

mjn wrote: post #54
joshlegs wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels like a very "European" comment. Really the only thing you could nitpick is in points 7 and 9, because that's where he makes generalizations about alcohol's effects on others. Near as I can tell, the rest of the list is primarily about how it affects him as an individual. As far as alcohol being a depressant, that's pretty well established by now. I'm just not sure what exactly screams "American" about this…

Here are the points that to me only seem to apply to people irresponsibly binge-drinking: #3 "expensive": I have never spent $100 when out drinking. You have to drink like a dozen beers to hit that, even if they're fancy craft beers. If you're really spending $100 on drinking, the issue is something other than drinking per se (either very expensive tastes in drinks, or binge drinking). #4, "You slow down, you slur, y…

I just still dont know. my girlfriend likes to have a few drinks when we go out. I'll drink with her so she doesnt feel awkward being the only one drinking. but a few things just to rebut your points.

#3 -- i hate beer, so the only real way i'll drink is if it's a cocktail. these typically range from $8-$12. I hate paying that much for a drink, so even 1 is expensive.

#4 -- i totally start slurring after 2 drinks. this is highly subjective

#5 -- maybe i can grant you that, in that it's not about drinking in moderation.

#7 -- i'm 50/50 on this. Beer is notorious for putting pounds on a person. It also does kill your liver. However, there are definitely other benefits associated with, say, a glass of wine with dinner. So I could kind of go either way on this

#8 -- i feel bad even after 2 or 3 drinks. For me, it primarily manifests itself in an awful night of sleep. But again, this is something that's very subjective, and it's not like he's putting a blanket criticism on drinking because it makes everyone feel bad the day after.

#9 -- i probably am with you on that too. because it turns other people into monsters if they drink too much doesnt mean the author shouldnt drink. but i can also understand his reasoning in that he wants to stay away from it because he doesnt want to allow himself the opportunity to turn into a monster, based on his observational evidence of how it affects others.

so if you look at the points that way, most of them still turn out to be reflections on how alcohol affects him personally, with those 2.5 exceptions.

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