In which I answer all of the questions (2012) • Hacker News Board

Re: In which I answer all of the questions (2012)

#61

Post by rhizome » Sat, Apr 26, 2014, 2:27 AM UTC

ia wrote: post #26

geekam wrote: post #21

Apart from the gender, plagiaristic issue, I think Jef Atwood really needs to learn about analogies. He was trying to conflate Autism with Sexism in his post.(And did you know that autism skews heavily towards males at a 4:1 ratio?) In the post about Aaron Swartz, he compared that to rage-quitting, even though he stated that he "understands depression is a serious disease".

He wasn't doing that at all. His point was that autism skews male and then suggests that the traits of Aspergers make good programmers. It was a comment on why there are more men than women in tech fields. Relevant excerpt below: "In an earlier post I noted that many software developers I've known have traits of Aspergers. Aspergers is a spectrum disorder; the more severe the symptoms, the closer it is to autism. And…

He's confusing his correlation, tantamount to saying being a White Protestant are traits that makes one a good President of the United States. That the historical traditions of programming may have selected for those traits does not mean that the traits make one better at programming than others. It may just be that hiring managers came up through that history and select for culture fit based upon their identity.

Re: In which I answer all of the questions (2012)

#62

Post by philwelch » Sat, Apr 26, 2014, 2:44 AM UTC

dbloom wrote: post #25

jasallen wrote: post #6

For what it's worth, my opinion is that Jeff was replying to Shanley with what he considered to be a better approach to the topic. I think the lack of attribution was an oversight, and I don't think anything in Jeff's post "plagiarizes" or comes close to it. I also find Shanley's demeanor extremely rude, off-putting and counterproductive to a discussion on any topic.

> I also find Shanley's demeanor extremely rude, off-putting and counterproductive to a discussion on any topic. Linus Torvalds is even worse according to your definition of bad demeanor. Would you say that this helps or hurts his advocacy?

We know who Linus Torvalds is in spite of his demeanor, not because of it. That's not true for Shanley.

Re: In which I answer all of the questions (2012)

#63

Post by Fishkins » Sat, Apr 26, 2014, 2:54 AM UTC

verdi327 wrote: post #38

I don't understand. I get the idea for us to self organize and bring about more diversity to the tech industry. What is lost on me with all these posts/comments/arguments is that they act as if white males are trying to stop women and other minorities from entering the field. More than most fields, getting a job as a developer is based on objective facts. Can you solve x problem. Especially in a market where good tal…

Of course they won't say "well, you have the technical chops, but I'm not going to hire you bc you're a woman." What they might say is "she isn't technically qualified" when an identical technical demonstration by a man would have been perceived as proficient. Unless your technical assessments are purely-objective exercises graded by a machine, you or your coworkers are probably subject to these biases without realizing it.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/unofficial-prognosis/201... (there a other similar studies; that's just one example)

edit: "Bad culture fit" can also be a reason for not hiring whose underlying cause has to do with gender or other diversity.

Re: In which I answer all of the questions (2012)

#64

Post by owenversteeg » Sat, Apr 26, 2014, 3:12 AM UTC

I agree with this, but I have to say that my favorite piece of writing on the subject still has to be Lea Verou's blog post: http://pensieve.verou.me/post/54853162595/on-women-in-tech It's also a bit more substantial than this (fairly short) piece.

If you're not interested in the subject matter, you should at least look at the article to see all the typographic features in the font.