Why we don't sell ads (2012) • Hacker News Board

Re: Why we don't sell ads (2012)

#21

Post by stoev » Fri, Apr 25, 2014, 3:57 PM UTC

subdane wrote: post #15

stoev wrote: post #9

While I strongly support any business model that tries to escape from the typical ads monetisation strategy, we can see (two years after this post was published) that not relying on ads has not been the best long-term strategy for WhatsApp for two reasons: 1. They didn't manage to stay independent and had to sell to Facebook. I always thought that they had a very good chance to expand their product and built a platfo…

They didn't have to sell to FB they chose to. They had a history of flipping to paid versions of the app to cover costs and reduce growth. Their actual competitors were carriers who charge exorbitant SMS fees internationally. At ~500M users their plan to simply charge $1/yr would have covered their costs.

I don't see it that way. After selling to FB it became clear that hey intended to launch VoIP. If they actually wanted to launch a high-quality product, better voice service than the one offered by carriers (and therefore much better than what Viber has to offer), they would probably have struggled to do it without the help of FB. Every carrier on earth would be against them.

Re: Why we don't sell ads (2012)

#22

Post by mkr-hn » Fri, Apr 25, 2014, 3:57 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #14

Remember the internet back when ads were just something you ran across on cheesy low-quality (or porn) sites? http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/09/16/the-web-in-1996-1997/ http://allthingsd.com/20090720/yahoo-home-pages-over-the-las... http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/time-10-big-websites-looked-15-...

That's because low quality sites were the only ones that would run the kind of ads we had back then. Then someone built an ad blocker and forced the industry to rethink its approach.

Re: Why we don't sell ads (2012)

#23

Post by dpierce9 » Fri, Apr 25, 2014, 3:57 PM UTC

This is simply the cable tv model applied to internet services. Cable went from pay to avoid ads to pay and still get ads (and of course there is Hulu). These guys just figured out how to double dip in a really subtle way.

Re: Why we don't sell ads (2012)

#24

Post by matthewmacleod » Fri, Apr 25, 2014, 3:59 PM UTC

tbarbugli wrote: post #11

general_failure wrote: post #8

Most people's morals and ethics, however "religious" and staunch they sound, is up for sale. It's just a matter of finding the right price (as long as what you want from them is not illegal). I am yet to meet someone whose morals are not for sale. I only know figures like Gandhi but I never got a chance to meet them (and some books told me they were flexible when it came to themselves - re: his wife's medical treatme…

I can find lot of names but I am lazy and one is enough to prove you wrong http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_More

Your parent literally said "most people," i.e. one example is not enough.

And I have to agree. There's a reason the idiom "every man has his price" exists. Certainly, if a large company offered me billions of dollars for a small business of my own, there are relatively few scenarios I can imagine where I'd turn it down.

Re: Why we don't sell ads (2012)

#25

Post by afarrell » Fri, Apr 25, 2014, 4:02 PM UTC

malanj wrote: post #20

The whole WhatsApp acquisition touches on some of the same personal nerves that Google's acquisition of EtherPad did. It was a really great product that I used daily. At the time Google had big plans for their Wave product, and the entire deal seemed to make sense. Fast forward a few months and Wave is a dud and EtherPad is no more. I'm not saying that WhatsApp won't be useful to Facebook, but I do think that the phi…

https://etherpad.mozilla.org/

Re: Why we don't sell ads (2012)

#26

Post by pearjuice » Fri, Apr 25, 2014, 4:06 PM UTC

If you are a vegetarian and you are told to go to a butcher to buy meat, you shouldn't do it out of principle.

When you are WhatsApp and you are against advertising - referencing a quote with great aversion towards it - you shouldn't accept billions from a company who is build on the single premise of advertising.

They have lost all my trust.

Re: Why we don't sell ads (2012)

#27

Post by subdane » Fri, Apr 25, 2014, 4:09 PM UTC

stoev wrote: post #21

subdane wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't have to sell to FB they chose to. They had a history of flipping to paid versions of the app to cover costs and reduce growth. Their actual competitors were carriers who charge exorbitant SMS fees internationally. At ~500M users their plan to simply charge $1/yr would have covered their costs.

I don't see it that way. After selling to FB it became clear that hey intended to launch VoIP. If they actually wanted to launch a high-quality product, better voice service than the one offered by carriers (and therefore much better than what Viber has to offer), they would probably have struggled to do it without the help of FB. Every carrier on earth would be against them.

My point was simply that carriers were their competitors, not social networks. How does facebook help them fight?

Re: Why we don't sell ads (2012)

#28

Post by wdewind » Fri, Apr 25, 2014, 4:11 PM UTC

eloisant wrote: post #17

"Because our business model is to get bought, not becoming profitable."

Users pay $1/year after the first year. At almost half a billion active users that's a pretty great business model.

Re: Why we don't sell ads (2012)

#29

Post by marquis » Fri, Apr 25, 2014, 4:12 PM UTC

subdane wrote: post #15

stoev wrote: post #9

While I strongly support any business model that tries to escape from the typical ads monetisation strategy, we can see (two years after this post was published) that not relying on ads has not been the best long-term strategy for WhatsApp for two reasons: 1. They didn't manage to stay independent and had to sell to Facebook. I always thought that they had a very good chance to expand their product and built a platfo…

They didn't have to sell to FB they chose to. They had a history of flipping to paid versions of the app to cover costs and reduce growth. Their actual competitors were carriers who charge exorbitant SMS fees internationally. At ~500M users their plan to simply charge $1/yr would have covered their costs.

This is something that never really sat right with me. How were they going to extract the $1 from every user? Most of their users do not have, and may never have, a credit card and signing up with every cellphone carrier to get your yearly $1 would have been a nightmare. I am not sure they would have gotten $1 out of even every 10 users.

Re: Why we don't sell ads (2012)

#30

Post by antisocial » Fri, Apr 25, 2014, 4:13 PM UTC

general_failure wrote: post #8

Most people's morals and ethics, however "religious" and staunch they sound, is up for sale. It's just a matter of finding the right price (as long as what you want from them is not illegal). I am yet to meet someone whose morals are not for sale. I only know figures like Gandhi but I never got a chance to meet them (and some books told me they were flexible when it came to themselves - re: his wife's medical treatme…

Bill Watterson