Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

#61

Post by pjc50 » Fri, Apr 25, 2014, 12:49 PM UTC

michaelochurch wrote: post #41

There's something Apple and Google and their ilk are much more afraid of than this lawsuit and, based on these shenanigans, it may be time. I found out last March why my manager at Google was adverse to me. I knew someone was pulling strings on him and I had thought that he was taking orders related to my criticism of the G+ direction (in fact, the G+ executives were, as far as I know, innocent) but it was actually b…

People thinking that the blacklist is paranoid: the UK had a construction industry blacklisting scandal for years ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21155535 ) and it's still not been properly dealt with.

Anti-unionism is often as much about the authority as it is about saving money; the desire to retain arbitrary power over your employees and know you've given them the bad end of the deal, even if they're on a multi-hundred-thousand-dollar salary.

Re: Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

#62

Post by e40 » Fri, Apr 25, 2014, 12:51 PM UTC

a3n wrote: post #56

beedogs wrote: post #5

Settlement seems low. Looks like every company involved ended up saving quite a bit of money, after all is said and done, with this little salary racket they had going.

"Settlement seems low." > Apple, Google, Adobe and Intel in 2010 settled a U.S. Department of Justice probe by agreeing not to enter into such no-hire deals in the future. The four companies had since been fighting the civil antitrust class action. This I think is actually the worst part, and all but guaranteed this settlement. "You guys were caught robbing banks. Don't do that again, 'K? Now get outta here." Too bad…

Too bad a similar DOJ settlement wasn't available to Aaron Swartz.

Unfortunately, it is all too familiar that large corporations get off with a hand slap and individuals are punished or threatened with the full extent of the law. Seems backwards to me, because the harm that a large corporation can do is almost unbounded.

Re: Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

#63

Post by danielweber » Fri, Apr 25, 2014, 12:51 PM UTC

michaelochurch wrote: post #41

There's something Apple and Google and their ilk are much more afraid of than this lawsuit and, based on these shenanigans, it may be time. I found out last March why my manager at Google was adverse to me. I knew someone was pulling strings on him and I had thought that he was taking orders related to my criticism of the G+ direction (in fact, the G+ executives were, as far as I know, innocent) but it was actually b…

You are describing a professional society, like doctors or lawyers have.

Also:

    * transparency in compensation.
    * protection against sharing of individual HR data (salaries, performance reviews) among companies, often used to keep pay down.

Those two things are in contradiction.

Re: Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

#64

Post by hahainternet » Fri, Apr 25, 2014, 12:55 PM UTC

jfjdjrnfmfm wrote: post #57

hahainternet wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google has almost 50,000 employees. Not all of them are intelligent, well-adjusted people. Their responses to you that I have seen show no indication of underlying issues. Indeed they almost all seem to indict you as being overly obsessed with showing your infallibility with regards to you leaving Google. This conversation has started off in a similar manner. > "Blacklisted" implies inability to get jobs, and it ha…

larry?

I wish! I doubt Google will even buy my IP :(

I just think the whole 'Google fired me' angle Michael always brings to the discussion irrelevant.

These anti poaching agreements were seriously immoral and they have literally nothing to do with Unions.

Re: Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

#65

Post by danielweber » Fri, Apr 25, 2014, 12:56 PM UTC

sheepmullet wrote: post #60

hahainternet wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Michael, I have seen you comment here many times. I don't know you, and have never met you, but I feel it's hard to believe your stories. Almost every time you comment, there's immediately a comment from an active Googler telling everyone how you see things in a completely different way. For example, you casually mention here how you must be black listed because you have seen career problems since. Yet this is nothin…

I find it easy to believe him. He posts using his real name. If he is lying then ....well Google has an army of lawyers. He is almost certainly telling what he believes is the truth. In contrast all the active Google employees who follow him around are anon posters. Anon posters who never worked with Michael and are only repeating office gossip or pointing out differences in perspective. Edit: Anon people sign up to…

> I find it easy to believe him. He posts using his real name. If he is lying then ....well Google has an army of lawyers.

Without taking any side here, this isn't indicative of much. One has to work very hard to be able to actually lose a libel or slander lawsuit in the US. And while it would be very easy for Google to start a lawsuit it knows it can't win just to pressure some guy to shut up, Google probably understands the Streisand effect very well.

Re: Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

#66

Post by jfjdjrnfmfm » Fri, Apr 25, 2014, 12:59 PM UTC

shanterer wrote: post #53

michaelochurch wrote: post #41

There's something Apple and Google and their ilk are much more afraid of than this lawsuit and, based on these shenanigans, it may be time. I found out last March why my manager at Google was adverse to me. I knew someone was pulling strings on him and I had thought that he was taking orders related to my criticism of the G+ direction (in fact, the G+ executives were, as far as I know, innocent) but it was actually b…

your history of compulsive megaposting across google's internal message boards, your university's message boards, autoadmit, hackernews and several other sites indicates low mental stability and a paranoid mindset. it's not hard to believe that you really are a low productivity troublesome employee, and that this explain your lack of career success.

eric?

Re: Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

#67

Post by danielweber » Fri, Apr 25, 2014, 1:02 PM UTC

michaelochurch wrote: post #50

hahainternet wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Michael, I have seen you comment here many times. I don't know you, and have never met you, but I feel it's hard to believe your stories. Almost every time you comment, there's immediately a comment from an active Googler telling everyone how you see things in a completely different way. For example, you casually mention here how you must be black listed because you have seen career problems since. Yet this is nothin…

Almost every time you comment, there's immediately a comment from an active Googler telling everyone how you see things in a completely different way. Google has almost 50,000 employees. Not all of them are intelligent, well-adjusted people. For example, you casually mention here how you must be black listed because you have seen career problems since. I don't think I'm "blacklisted". I've definitely caught inappropr…

I've definitely caught inappropriate communications behind my back, to the point that I've had to pursue litigation and have collected a couple of (small) tortious interference settlements.

This is much much bigger issue to any employer than any union-forming issue. An employee who sues is a giant nightmare. (Which I will say right now can be unfair, because it's hard for an outsider to distinguish between the bogus lawsuit and the legit lawsuit, and there are plenty of both in the workplace.)

Lawsuits are just about as bad as comments about how you would declare war on your employer if they cross a line you have set. I've seen you make that comment at least twice.

A union agitator would need to get a critical mass of coworkers to go along with him to cause real trouble. A guy who sues or self-describes as declaring war can cause real trouble all by himself.

EDIT: I have some specific posts I could refer to, but I don't think linking to them follow the "Please add comments that make things better" rule. I'm not 100% positive that this comment so far follows the rule, so I'm quitting before I get too far behind.

Re: Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

#68

Post by sheepmullet » Fri, Apr 25, 2014, 1:05 PM UTC

danielweber wrote: post #65

sheepmullet wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it easy to believe him. He posts using his real name. If he is lying then ....well Google has an army of lawyers. He is almost certainly telling what he believes is the truth. In contrast all the active Google employees who follow him around are anon posters. Anon posters who never worked with Michael and are only repeating office gossip or pointing out differences in perspective. Edit: Anon people sign up to…

> I find it easy to believe him. He posts using his real name. If he is lying then ....well Google has an army of lawyers. Without taking any side here, this isn't indicative of much. One has to work very hard to be able to actually lose a libel or slander lawsuit in the US. And while it would be very easy for Google to start a lawsuit it knows it can't win just to pressure some guy to shut up, Google probably unders…

> Without taking any side here, this isn't indicative of much.

I think it does up the ante. If a Google employee (or anyone who doesn't like him really) could catch him in a lie his reputation would be damaged as he is a "public figure".

On the other hand if you caught me in a lie... well only around 5-6 people know who I am and I copied this nick off another bloke on a different forum because I thought it was cool. So it wouldn't really bother me.

Re: Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

#69

Post by goblin89 » Fri, Apr 25, 2014, 1:11 PM UTC

hahainternet wrote: post #54

michaelochurch wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost every time you comment, there's immediately a comment from an active Googler telling everyone how you see things in a completely different way. Google has almost 50,000 employees. Not all of them are intelligent, well-adjusted people. For example, you casually mention here how you must be black listed because you have seen career problems since. I don't think I'm "blacklisted". I've definitely caught inappropr…

> Google has almost 50,000 employees. Not all of them are intelligent, well-adjusted people. Their responses to you that I have seen show no indication of underlying issues. Indeed they almost all seem to indict you as being overly obsessed with showing your infallibility with regards to you leaving Google. This conversation has started off in a similar manner. > "Blacklisted" implies inability to get jobs, and it ha…

This discussion is curious to me. I've heard the sentiment “fire your employee when they show attitude”, and no doubt that an attitude coupled with mental instability (hinted at by another commenter) would make an employee troublesome in the eyes of the employer.

However, I can't see how at all this is relevant and why it's taken into account in evaluating michaelochurch's comment.

For example, one of his statements is:

> The Valley is fucking terrified of unions. So terrified that if you even seem like you might be leaning that way, executive-level people in major companies will go out of their way to fuck up your career. A lot of the back-channel reference checking that goes on in the Valley is to avoid taking on a potential unionist. No one cares if you were a mediocre performer 3 jobs ago.

We surely could question the anecdotal nature of OP's experience and call for more evidence, yet commenters start implying that the person is writing this out of mental instability or evil agenda.

> you appear to have an anti-Google agenda in your comments

IMHO it seems natural that pro-Google comments from other employees of the company, which you mention as answering to OP elsewhere, too might likely have an agenda of their own.

Re: Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

#70

Post by danielweber » Fri, Apr 25, 2014, 1:12 PM UTC

abalone wrote: post #16

malandrew wrote: post #15

Why in the world would those 64k employees take this offer? It was clear that they were going to pay for this and that a jury would be sympathetic. Was there really any chance that the amount gained could have be lower for the plaintiffs had this case gone to a jury trial? If not, then why didn't they go to trial?

It actually addresses this. The report explains that there's a chance the whole thing would have been invalidated by an appellate judge. Still, personally as a class member I would've pressed for more, and I bet it's because the firm has different incentives. They probably stand to get something on the order of $100M of that settlement. They're thinking, $100M in the hand is worth $1B in the bush. Especially since go…

Sucks that the class members don't have a say.

Class members can opt out of the settlement, and if enough do it (IANAL but one would probably know the magic number) the settlement doesn't hold.

There is heavy social pressure not to opt out, though. It would be very public. And actively participating in a lawsuit against an employer puts a black mark on your resume for any future employers. (Which as I pointed out elsewhere can be unfair: sometimes employees sue for bullshit reasons, and sometimes employees sue for incredibly legitimate reasons.)