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A simple way Google could have avoided fucking up Google+

scottporad.com

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Re: A simple way Google could have avoided fucking up Google+

#81
post #72

That's not the biggest problem, to me. Google+ maybe has not hit the target usage stats google wanted, but even when you love google+, it's awkward to use. I'm a daily google+ user and quite like the product. But when it comes to publishing, it always feels a bit off. I don't have a single public identity. I'm a rails developer, a news addict, a french citizen and since recently, a 3d printer user. Recently, I decide…

What is lacking is 'channel negotiation' between the sender and the receiver. The sender knows what he sends - the receiver knows what he wants to receive - neither of them has the full information and they need to collaborate on defining the channel connecting them. For example the sender can sort their messages into out-channels (as it is partially implemented in Google+ via circles) and the receiver can chose what…

I still fail to really grasp what Google+ is.

I'd actually rather a de-centralised platform. And prefer a glorious feed organiser.

Very simple open comment/status feed APIs would be more beneficial for the community at large with a pub/sub mechanism that was easy to understand and utilise.

Add an RSS feed for a news website, add a Twitter feed, or friend, add a Facebook (channel for a better word), or whatever. Organise these somehow. Integrate privacy controls. This would probably suit a next generation browser rather than an online silo.

Re: A simple way Google could have avoided fucking up Google+

#82
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could even implement that with a metaphor that is used to address a similar problem in the real world. People will say something "I'm wearing my Engineers hat now" to make it clear that they are communicating from a particular viewpoint. Hats, and indeed Masks(where you see only the headgear and not the identity behind it), would be a great addition to Google+.

> Hats […] would be a great addition to Google+. Are you working at Valve?

No. Why?

Re: A simple way Google could have avoided fucking up Google+

#83

That's not the biggest problem, to me. Google+ maybe has not hit the target usage stats google wanted, but even when you love google+, it's awkward to use. I'm a daily google+ user and quite like the product. But when it comes to publishing, it always feels a bit off. I don't have a single public identity. I'm a rails developer, a news addict, a french citizen and since recently, a 3d printer user. Recently, I decide…

May I publish an other one without annoying people that are following me for something else ? It's especially a problem with my french articles, since most of people following me won't understand french.

Yup, that's a killer. I have people who follow me for personal stuff, a few people who follow me for kayaking stuff, a couple hundred people who apparently follow me for tech/entrepreneurial stuff and some people who follow me for interesting links to French content.

But the tech people have only a limited interest in kayaking, none of the kayaking people care weird French TV series, and so on. So anything I say is going to bore someone. At least Google+ circles make it easy to restrict 99% of the "adorable child" photos to my immediate family. But that only works for those followers I know personally, not the couple hundred strangers who follow me for one reason or another.

How not to be boring, rule 101: Thou shalt not obsess about one's hobbies to people who are not interested.

Twitter works a bit better, because I can have several independent Twitter accounts: one per language that I write in, or one per enthusiasm, or whatever works for me.

But Google+ forces me to publish only that subset of content which is interesting to almost all my followers. And that's very nearly the null set.

Re: A simple way Google could have avoided fucking up Google+

#84

People don't seem to understand that Google+ was used internally before launch as though it were Facebook; people only shared with their friends and family. But when the product was launched to the public, it was given a limited release, biasing it to the tech crowd, and they gave the ability to give posts "public" visibility. Well these two things quickly turned Google+ into Twitter rather than Facebook. Then they s…

I really wish they had just rolled with it and allowed it to grow as a new Twitter-like product. It still is from what I can see. The majority of people I follow are people I don't know outside of G+ who share publicly or to interest-based circles.

Re: A simple way Google could have avoided fucking up Google+

#86
People on the post's comments are suggesting that RSS only has technical followers.

Really we should be talking about feeds and subscriptions. Wording needs to be friendlier: add my friend's feed or follow Kate Bush. It doesn't matter what the technology is so much underneath. RSS and Atom are meaningless to the general public and only confuse matters. But I think they'd grok the idea of following an interest or person, or giving feedback to a post, a thing, or a happening.

Re: A simple way Google could have avoided fucking up Google+

#87
It's "build something people want", right?

Let's do this from first principles.

Twitter was successful early on because they never discouraged multiple, independent, throwaway accounts. Why doesn't Google let you manage an unlimited number of independent and unlinked first-class-citizen profiles under one Google Account, under any name you choose? They can still mine all the data because they know (and keep secret!) that it's all one person. Facebook and Twitter do this too, just with cookies instead of login credentials.

People want to share lots of personal details on their social network. Facebook is wildly successful because they make it easy for people to do so - perhaps to the point of oversharing. Google could have dispensed with the whole "following"/"circles" nonsense and gone with the undirected, two-way-confirmed model (with group support) that doesn't confuse people not familiar with graph theory, or the twitter model of basically casual, unconfirmed, directed-graph subscription, independent of the underlying personal relationship. Either would have been fine - instead, the egghead googlers tried to solve both and ended up solving neither.

Last but not least, pretending that I want Google+ (no, don't "ask me again later" you fucking cunt of a website) to infect all the other important basic utilities of the web that Google's huge pile of cash has bought their way into (YouTube of course first comes to mind, but Maps and Gmail and Search too) is blatantly disrespectful to their only true asset: their users. Even Zuckerberg doesn't pretend like he's doing us that much of a favor when Facebook once-again revises its default privacy controls downward...

It's pretty simple, really. It's super tragic that Google has turned into such a monolith of a Big Company that it can't even execute on a simple vision without tons of management getting involved and figuring out, through endless meetings, how to make every single step of the experience as user-hostile as possible.

It's not like they're incapable of making user-centric experiences anymore. Look at how great Maps is these days, or how Gmail's webmail has become completely untouchable the way Outlook/Exchange or Blackberries were in their heyday - both cases because they did exactly what their customers wanted.

(Aside: Interestingly enough, Apple was doing this for a long time, and now with things like iAds and IAPs and carrier override of my ability to tether my phone, it seems like they are slowly beginning to fail to consider exactly why and how they got to their position as market leader. (The argument could also be made that they are serving multiple masters - carriers/developers versus end-users.) If they continue, as Google has, eventually their customers will be right to leave.)

I imagine it will take a lot of smart Googlers leaving in utter frustration before Google-the-entity finally changes course.

Re: A simple way Google could have avoided fucking up Google+

#88
post #71
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Price and cost matter a great deal here. Although the price of G+ was zero, the cost quite high - the user's time. G+ was hard to understand for most people. Google tried to give it a language of it's own that took people effort to learn - groups were "Circles", chat was "Hangout", and so on. It didn't instantly click in the way that Facebook or Twitter does for most people. Given that, the value proposition for G+ w…

> the cost quite high - the user's time That's a good point. I still don't really "get" Google+, and I find it somewhat counterintuitive. > tl;dr G+ didn't provide enough value to users to make it worthwhile spending time with the product, ergo it was a bad product that people didn't spend time with. I was challenging your "few users ==> bad product" line of reasoning in general, not necessarily the statement "Google…

That's a fair point. I really just drawing a distinction between accounts and users. G+ had hundreds of millions of accounts but relatively few users, certainly a single digit percentage of total accounts. That's a strong indicator that people aren't coming back after their initial experience or that they're signing up to something they don't want in the first place. Neither is a sign of a good product.

Re: A simple way Google could have avoided fucking up Google+

#89
post #87

It's "build something people want", right? Let's do this from first principles. Twitter was successful early on because they never discouraged multiple, independent, throwaway accounts. Why doesn't Google let you manage an unlimited number of independent and unlinked first-class-citizen profiles under one Google Account, under any name you choose? They can still mine all the data because they know (and keep secret!)…

> Aside: Interestingly enough, Apple was doing this for a long time,

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I'm not sure I agree with this.

Apple have had some pretty famous "We know what's best for you" stances in their history - one button mouse, original Mac keyboard with no cursor keys, original iPod only working with Macs, very limited array of products configurations, no licencing of MacOS to non-Apple computers, iPhone apps only available through their app store etc etc. Some of those have eventually changed, but (apart from maybe the iPods being Mac-only) they haven't typically restricted the success of those products.

If anything, the darkest days of their history were probably at the point when they were offering a vast array of products and configurations in an attempt to give users exactly what they thought they wanted.

Re: A simple way Google could have avoided fucking up Google+

#90
post #8

This is the way I've been using Facebook for years. Most of the publications I follow have FB pages to which they submit their most pertinent content (for small publications and individual authors this usually ends up being every story or post). I can skim what's new and get other recommendations from people that I know. With a little bit of work I can also filter down what I see to just the people whose opinions I c…

I totally agree that Facebook is shooting themselves in the foot. Already we see publishers and brands moving away from Facebook to platforms (e.g. Twitter, Instagram) where all their content will be seen.

I know what you meant, but just pointing out that the average Twitter user certainly won't see all of the content of anything they follow.
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