It's fascinating how scientology was formed out of Hubbard stealing his wife, scamming him out of money... and then his ex wife and hubbard founded scientology - using a bastardized version of Thelema as a means to control and bilk money out of 'thin' personalities that are looking for help and validation. Quite a use of the occult!
Jack Parsons: Occultist involved in early rocketry
91–100 of 103 posts
Re: Jack Parsons: Occultist involved in early rocketry
#92Pascual Jordan, one of the founding fathers of quantum mechanics along with Dirac, Heisenberg, Pauli and Born had his name essentially written out of the history books because of his association with the Nazi party which really amounted to overlooking what the Nazis were doing and saying some positive comments about the Nazis. I don't like what Jordan did. Heisenberg is a less controversial figure which some people claimed had skeletons in his closet regarding the Nazi party. Nothing really came of it and Heisenberg's reputation has been untouched except a few still hold questions regarding his conduct. I'd like to know if this issue was ever cleared up. Heisenberg is still (rightly) remembered as a chief architect but Pascual Jordan whose contributions equal or exceed Pauli is almost entirely written out.
Re: Jack Parsons: Occultist involved in early rocketry
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
The TV Tropes folks have categorized this idea as "Magic A is Magic A": http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicAIsMagicA The description of Magic Engineering in Ra is worked out pretty entertainingly, with people setting up university departments, research programs, companies, etc., to apply magic to things like manufacturing and transportation. Spoiler alert for Ra (no really, go read the story instead of t…
..english letter frequency table based remapping did not help me here (and that was the extent of my effort).. I'm beginning to think that this might have been one of those autoironic fourth wall story-narrative-mocking jokes! Did you just pull a Derrida on me? (Thanks for the tvtropes article; it links to another one ( http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MinovskyPhysics ) which mentions "Schild's ladder"; whi…
It's ROT-13, try this http://web.forret.com/tools/rot13.asp - and a nice way to obfuscate a spoiler.
Re: Jack Parsons: Occultist involved in early rocketry
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
in the software world powerful spell books are definitely real : http://www.lisperati.com/casting.html
As a child, I would go to the library and bring home stacks of books on UFOs, magic, cryptozoology, and the like. I am always amused by the fact that so many of my colleagues in software development were just like me and claim to have had similar interests. Maybe a coincidence but I think there is definitely an underlying interest in arcane subjects.
I don't find it at all coincidental that software developers write and speak in 'code'. Software development literally is esoteric - "intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialised knowledge or interest". Given there are 7 billion people on the planet, there's a lot of software developers kicking around at the moment, but they still represent a tiny fraction of the population. I think we tent to forget are concepts in the IT world that are so highly abstract they seem like magic to the average person. I'm a metal fabricator by trade, every day my mind boggles that we have tamed electricity to be able to fuse metals flawlessly. The number of things that have to come together to support the modern world is "magic" to me in a romantic sense.
Engineers, software developers, hardware developers, technicians, and trades people have literally assembled this world (the built environs) from dust (raw materials in general).
Re: Jack Parsons: Occultist involved in early rocketry
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
The justification, at least for me, is in the approach that Thelema as a whole takes towards religious experience, and in the experience I've had with the Book of the Law. The perspective of this particular Thelemite is that the Book of the Law is the product of one man's religious experience, and that book has been very useful in the personal and spiritual development of myself and others. I don't think the value of…
As far as I'm concerned, any good is full undermined by a mission statement like "Each is expected to aspire fervently to the Great Work; to dare, with courage undaunted, to perfect that Work;" It is doctrinaire philosophy, and regardless of any benefits it may bestow on you, on the whole it is just as dangerous to thought, reason, and humanity itself as any other system which undermines rationally based systems of d…
You don't have to apologize to me - you're certainly entitled to your opinion. I disagree with you, though given the circumstances that certainly isn't unexpected.
Please bear in mind that the Temple of Thelema (where I assume you found the quote) is one of several Thelemic groups, and do not necessarily speak for everyone. Still I am genuinely curious as to what you find offensive about that particular statement. If you take the Great Work as the perfection of the individual (which I do) I don't see what could possibly be wrong with that.
If you really think that Thelema is designed to 'erode the reason and instill faith' you are mistaken, but you can't be faulted for thinking that for a brief internet search. Any philosophy is complex, and the things that you're most likely to see first are the more sensational aspects, and those do appear superstitious.
As far as justification for my epistemology I didn't offer that because it doesn't exist. Thelema is not the basis of my epistemology, my experience is. Thelema is how I describe and relate to that experience.
In any case, I don't really hope to or desire to convince you - that's not particularly important. Just hoped to express myself a little more clearly, have some dialogue, and try to understand what you find offensive about the quote.
Re: Jack Parsons: Occultist involved in early rocketry
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Prior discussions of the Parsons story are not confined to Scientology history." True. I'm just pointing it out because it's a big vector by which a lot of mainstream audiences are likely to have discovered Parsons and his extracurricular activities. Especially in recent years, with "Going Clear" coming out and hitting the charts. My point was mostly that this stuff is not fresh scandal, hot off the presses.
Sorry if I did not convey that I was not correcting, just supplementing what you said. I already upvoted your comment FWIW.
Oh, it's all good. I upvoted yours, as well. :) I have a tendency to respond with supplemental information to a lot of my replies, and from time to time, it can come across as defensive. It's not meant to be.
Re: Jack Parsons: Occultist involved in early rocketry
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
As far as I'm concerned, any good is full undermined by a mission statement like "Each is expected to aspire fervently to the Great Work; to dare, with courage undaunted, to perfect that Work;" It is doctrinaire philosophy, and regardless of any benefits it may bestow on you, on the whole it is just as dangerous to thought, reason, and humanity itself as any other system which undermines rationally based systems of d…
You don't have to apologize to me - you're certainly entitled to your opinion. I disagree with you, though given the circumstances that certainly isn't unexpected. Please bear in mind that the Temple of Thelema (where I assume you found the quote) is one of several Thelemic groups, and do not necessarily speak for everyone. Still I am genuinely curious as to what you find offensive about that particular statement. If…
Perhaps you can refer me to a less doctrinaire viewpoint.
I read enough on that site to make it quite clear that the Great Work is the actual book they seem to worship.
Regardless, this still seems rather religious, even if some sects are less so. By reinterpreting "great work" it sounds like so many rationalizations of biblical belief.
Re: Jack Parsons: Occultist involved in early rocketry
#98The first time I heard about this kind of stuff when I was searching 'Aleister Crowley' in Google but hit Jet Propulsion Lab in the following story:
http://io9.com/5978746/the-strangely-true-connection-between...
Re: Jack Parsons: Occultist involved in early rocketry
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
At what point does it become a self fulfilling prophecy? If we continue to cater to people who insist on demanding that research and funding go to the prettiest scientist or the on that has the best power point who is to blame when things like this happen? I think it's better to not be an enabler. Sure, it may be harder and more complicated, but to me it's the right thing to do. We're letting ignorance win when we ha…
I agree to some level, especially regarding politics and personality, but go back and look at the article we're commenting on. Does that sound like a person who should be the public face of any project?
Yes, definitely! Then scientists might be considered interesting human beings.
Re: Jack Parsons: Occultist involved in early rocketry
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
You don't have to apologize to me - you're certainly entitled to your opinion. I disagree with you, though given the circumstances that certainly isn't unexpected. Please bear in mind that the Temple of Thelema (where I assume you found the quote) is one of several Thelemic groups, and do not necessarily speak for everyone. Still I am genuinely curious as to what you find offensive about that particular statement. If…
Perhaps you can refer me to a less doctrinaire viewpoint. I read enough on that site to make it quite clear that the Great Work is the actual book they seem to worship. Regardless, this still seems rather religious, even if some sects are less so. By reinterpreting "great work" it sounds like so many rationalizations of biblical belief.
Argh, no! Those sorts of sites can be a bit abstruse, and the term "Great Work" refers to self-perfection.
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Work
"The Great Work is, before all things, the creation of man by himself, that is to say, the full and entire conquest of his faculties and his future;"
How you do it doesn't matter. Thelema uses a lot of fancy language because it's Edwardian and its founder was a poet.
It's best understood in historical context. The purpose of Thelema was to free post-Victorian society from the social and moral superstitions and fixations which prevented people from really being themselves. It was essentially the first stirrings of the movement which found full expression sixty years later in the "New Age". Crowley referred to it as a "New Aeon"; poetry strikes again.
The essential tenet of freeing oneself from mistaken ideas, choosing a life goal and doing it, is as valuable today as it was then, but you don't have to call yourself a Thelemite to do it. To a great extent, that "meme" is now mainstream.