Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Coding Horror: All Programming is Web Programming

codinghorror.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 102 posts

Re: Coding Horror: All Programming is Web Programming

#91

Post by prodigal_erik »

nickelplate wrote: post #31

People like to say that the web is replacing the desktop, but is this really the case? When I look at the web applications I use on a regular basis (Amazon, craigslist, LinkedIn...) I cannot think of a desktop app they have displaced. I cannot say, for example, that "I stopped using desktop application X because Amazon is so much better". On the other hand, my trips to the book store are less frequent because of Amaz…

> If the goal is to clone an existing application and just move it to the web, what actual problem is being solved?

As soon as you sit down at a different computer, neither the application nor the work you did with it are available to you. That's a problem solved by hosting it on the web, though there are other ways to do it.

Re: Coding Horror: All Programming is Web Programming

#92

Post by superchink »

StrawberryFrog wrote: post #43
stewiecat wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some hospitals are run off of web apps. They're internally hosted and cost $20M/install, but they still run in IE.

And sometimes it's IE6. No, it won't work on other browsers. No, they won't update or re-write the software - it was a nightmare to get developed the first time around.

Our software works on IE6-7 & Firefox, but yes, it can be a nightmare to support newer browsers.

Re: Coding Horror: All Programming is Web Programming

#93

Post by rabidgnat »

tetha wrote: post #47
habitue wrote: post #3

I think I subconsciously had the same opinion as Michael, but reading it out loud makes you consider how dumb the idea really is. Do I think python developers are stupid just because it's easier to program in than C? No of course not. Elitism is rarely justified based on the tools or platforms people use.

In fact, this is a pretty curious article. Both the quote it reacts to and also the conclusions drawn from it are absolutely wrong (and I do think, this strong wording can be used in this context). Web programming is difficult in a different way than say, compiler construction or kernel programming. Web programmers have to deal with malicious users, a potentially vulnerable gigantic stack of applications, sessions, d…

"Web programming is difficult in a different way than say, compiler construction or kernel programming... Web programming is mad due to integration issues and malicious users"

To me, web programming isn't as well-defined as most programming topics, and requires competency in too many domain-specific areas for one person to master all of it.

Assuming you know what you want your language/web site to look like, compare..

Writing a parser generator, parsing the tree, optimizing the instructions, generating the instructions, regression testing, benchmarking

with..

Designing a database schema, maintaining HTML/CSS, making a pretty design, writing Javascript, safely deploying, configuring web servers, generating test environments for all browser/OS combinations, doing usability testing, and making sure you're not giving away any of your users' data.

A lot of the compiler-writing phases are yes/no (language design aside), and a lot of the web phases can't be answered easily. E.G. "Is our login system secure?" "Well, probably... Dave's pretty good with this stuff and he thinks it is."

Re: Coding Horror: All Programming is Web Programming

#94

Post by kristiandupont »

jacquesm wrote: post #44
wreel wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that both remarkably miss the point that the true measure of software is actualized value to the end user. Who cares about platform or depth of technical knowledge? If some PHP hobbyist who knows nothing about mmap(3) delivers a site that works for people then he is a successful programmer. But assertions like "You hope everything doesn't "move to the web"? Wake the hell up! It's already happened!" irk me. Th…

After seeing what google docs is capable of it is only a matter of time before even things like photoshop will be web oriented. Just the other day I was looking for a visio replacement, on a hunch I asked here if somebody knew of a web based version of it and I got two viable suggestions. Now, 5 years ago that would have been laughed at with 'that will never happen'. Now it is there. Give it another 5 years and who k…

https://www.photoshop.com/

Re: Coding Horror: All Programming is Web Programming

#95

Post by billswift »

shin_lao wrote: post #5

I think Jeff's post lacks humility and perspective. Generally you try not to name laws after yourself, but let's say it was some sort of humour. I truly think he should put web programming aside for a while, and realize someone has got to write the operating systems, web servers, middle wares, compilers, tools that make everything possible. If things are simple it's because other people solved the hard problems for h…

I named a law after myself (Bill's Law), because I couldn't think of anything else to call it. It's basically a nastier restatement of Murphy's Law:

"Anything you let go wrong will go wrong".

Re: Coding Horror: All Programming is Web Programming

#98

Post by mburney »

I've only been a programmer by trade for a couple years so I don't know very much yet, but could someone please enlighten me: what does the platform have to do with how difficult a problem is? I thought platforms, languages, etc. were just tools, and the web or desktop are just user environments; how do these tools and environments determine how complex the problems are? Apps can be as trivial as you want them to be or as difficult as you want them to be, regardless of how they are accessed. At least that's what I thought, or am I making some naive newbie mistake here?

Also it just seems like a lot of these anti-web "real" programmers don't ever discuss much about user interface design, as if that's trivial and backend programming is "real" programming because it's ugly and normal people get confused by it. Kind of reminds me of jr. high school when our school had apple computers, but the myself and other kids who owned PCs thought we were way smarter than apple users, because somehow we thought that typing in a black shell window makes you smarter than someone who draws pictures with a mouse.

Re: Coding Horror: All Programming is Web Programming

#99

Post by mynameishere »

edw519 wrote: post #9

The reason most people want to program for the web is that they're not smart enough to do anything else. The reason most people want to blog is that they're not smart enough to program for the web.

A comment of stark idiocy.

Not sure how your mind conjured that up.

Post reply on HN