Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Results of the GitHub Investigation

github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

501–510 of 514 posts

Re: Results of the GitHub Investigation

#501

Post by neilk »

kelnos wrote: post #500
neilk wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding to what SEMW said: for all we know, this story could be pure fiction, written by the Preston-Warners themselves, or someone else with a strong incentive to do so. The fact that this story helps everything "make sense" is not a useful heuristic. Anybody can craft this kind of tale, and it might also be playing on our prejudices - the spurned, jealous, bitchy lover narrative. But, as for myself, I don't have to…

Very good points. By now we all should know that women are routinely harassed in tech companies to a preposterous degree. On the other hand, I've seen cases where mentally disturbed people invent (or self-delude) incredibly detailed narratives of persecution. We could be dealing with a situation where one, the other, both, or neither is happening. The thing that irks me about all this is that murky incidents like thi…

> the alleged victim is ... not a very sympathetic character

> does little to help set an example for why the real instances of harassment are so wrong and terrible.

Ah, but this is why most victims don't go public. Very few of us would look good under intense scrutiny. And I think this whole process has demonstrated how tilted the playing field is, against those who do go public.

Some people say that this is why people claiming to be victims deserve a kind of automatic support. I struggle with that, but only because I've personally witnessed a couple of the rare cases where that empowered someone who was slightly deranged.

Re: Results of the GitHub Investigation

#502

Post by emilydelmont77 »

nailer wrote: post #250
ender7 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only problem for GitHub now is finding a way to attract talent. If your best response to "You have a hostile work environment." is "We don't have a provably illegal hostile work environment." then that doesn't inspire great confidence when evaluating it as a place to work.

If you want to know if GitHub is a hostile work environment according to women who work there, take a poll of current and past female employees, including Horvath. I did. So far it's working out in GitHub's favour. But maybe I missed something, so do your own research.

In theory this sounds like a good idea but in the aftermath of such drama, most women will not speak up. They'll lie to protect themselves instead. It makes sense and is totally understandable. Most women are not like Julie, which is why we're hearing so much about it.

I think this can have positive outcomes for GitHub, if they allow it. And if Julie does. Right now we're just in the "public fighting" phase.

Re: Results of the GitHub Investigation

#503

Post by lawnchair_larry »

zorpner wrote: post #435
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a drama queen. Hard to take her seriously with these antics.

Yes, this is a common rhetorical tactic used to dismiss the opinions of women when they address issues of sexism publicly. Thank you for demonstrating this disingenuous method of discourse so ably.

No, but denouncing everything as sexism is. Her issue is with another woman. That argument doesn't apply here. Unless you're suggesting that both me and the founder's wife are sexist.

Re: Results of the GitHub Investigation

#504

Post by CatMtKing »

theorique wrote: post #484
cynicalkane wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Men are also capable of angry twitter explosions with the properties I'm talking about. I don't see why you felt the need to bring up the "hysterical female" stereotype. It doesn't add anything to the conversation.

A lot of internet feminists and others have pointed to the gender dimensions of the issue. I figured it made sense to address it straight off. Since she is kind of ranting.

I would rant if I had to deal with shit like that, too, assuming that her account is accurate.

Re: Results of the GitHub Investigation

#505

Post by justizin »

jowiar wrote: post #440
weixiyen wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe they hired HR and put new policies in place. Chances are this incident will make it a better place to work than before.

And this speaks, in many ways, to the purpose of HR. It's not good enough to say "We don't think we have a hostile work environment", or "Asking around seems to show that we don't have a hostile work environment". You need to be able to say: "Here's why there is no way we can have a hostile work environment, and how we're taking action to ensure we don't". Part of it is policies, part of it documentation of events, p…

HR is a dangerous force like that, you bring it in to prevent discrimination, and before long it exists only to hold open the door and collect signatures for anyone who registers a complaint.

Re: Results of the GitHub Investigation

#506

Post by justizin »

CocaKoala wrote: post #146
onewaystreet wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But does anyone actually think Github has a hostile work environment? There is a difference between misunderstanding and systemic hostility.

I would submit that at least one person thought it was a hostile work environment.

Because tech companies have never followed any significant rules regarding employment, most tech companies are de facto hostile work environments, even if they try not to, because of the behavior of individuals toward each other. There's a culture that is changing, if slowly, but this is basically always the case.

IMO what it means is that people should work extra hard not to contribute to a hostile work environment, or expect to be perceived as contributing to a hostile work environment at randomly unpredictable points in their lifetime.

Re: Results of the GitHub Investigation

#507

Post by jdefarge »

malandrew wrote: post #428
sytelus wrote: post #65

Can anyone tell what exact discrimination Horvath faced? I went through her long interview and I can only read how she "felt" to be in "boys club" as opposed to specific events that can be qualified as discrimination. For example, she says her code was reverted and was apparently blaming that event on her being a women. I can't imagine someone throwing good code away because it was written by a women rather it seems…

It would be fascinating to see the commit in question. If the commit has technical merit and should not have been reverted, why would you not focus on demonstrating why the technical merit of the commit in question? Claiming that a commit was reverted for personal reasons instead of defending the technical merits of the commit strikes me as naïve. A highly competent person who has produced some work product that was…

Exactly! I had the curiosity to check JAH's github profile too, and it raised more suspicious towards her than I had previously imagined. For a fair comparison, let's see a couple of female github repos (both frontend and backend):

https://github.com/pamelafox?tab=repositories

https://github.com/kellabyte?tab=repositories

https://github.com/gwenshap?tab=repositories

See? Any of those smart women above has much more quality code in their repos with regular activity, even though not any of them works at github, that is, they push code on their free time.

Finally, let's see a repo by another harassed geek girl: https://github.com/adriarichards?tab=repositories

Um... I definitely see a pattern here screaming too loud not to take notice.

Re: Results of the GitHub Investigation

#508

Post by graup »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #294

it's not idea Sunday but: a wearable video recording device that documents everything. It may sound crazy but it would be interesting to me to find out how much of my rather boring life is actionable / illegal or distasteful

Devices like this exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifelog http://getnarrative.com/

Re: Results of the GitHub Investigation

#510

Post by [deleted] »

jdefarge wrote: post #507
malandrew wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be fascinating to see the commit in question. If the commit has technical merit and should not have been reverted, why would you not focus on demonstrating why the technical merit of the commit in question? Claiming that a commit was reverted for personal reasons instead of defending the technical merits of the commit strikes me as naïve. A highly competent person who has produced some work product that was…

Exactly! I had the curiosity to check JAH's github profile too, and it raised more suspicious towards her than I had previously imagined. For a fair comparison, let's see a couple of female github repos (both frontend and backend): https://github.com/pamelafox?tab=repositories https://github.com/kellabyte?tab=repositories https://github.com/gwenshap?tab=repositories See? Any of those smart women above has much more q…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN