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Do Men Suck At Friendship?

mensjournal.com

141–150 of 261 posts

Re: Do Men Suck At Friendship?

#141
Has anyone actually read the studies linked by the author to back up his drivel? I'll save you some time: the 2007 study isn't valid even by the low levels of scientific burden required for psychological studies (it's entirely based on self-reporting), and the 1982 study support the opposite conclusion to the author's. In fact, the 1982 study [0] finds that men and women simply have different kinds of friendships, where men are likely to only engage in emotional sharing with their closest friends, and women are more likely to engage in emotional sharing with all their friends.

This brings me on to challenging the true point of the article: slating the traditional male gender role. It's no accident that the author turns to the authority of feminists for perspectives on men -- despite that being so laughly outside the remit of feminism -- because the entire point, unstated but present, throughout the article is that women have 'got it right' and men should be more like women. In lieu of any studies which actually support his point (note that only the first two studies in the article actually even discuss his point about male friendships, the rest are an irrelevance), he instead uses anecdote as evidence for a point neither study can support, and then goes on to blame the entire mess on the traditional male gender role. I won't defend the male gender role, because I have no stock in doing so, but I would at least ask that if something's going to be blamed for mens' terrible friendships then we at least provide some proof that men do indeed have terrible friendships.

Lastly, the article, like so many in the media, is yet another argument that encourages you to accept its faulty form by providing you with a false dichotomy: the argument begs the question that either type of friend (the emotional numerous friends of women, or the close few friends of men) is a superior type of friend, links some 'evidence' which doesn't support its point, and then encourages you to ask yourself whether men or women 'have it right' before even bothering to prove if there's anything to actually get right in this situation.

I will say one thing though: if this is the kind of stuff Men's Journal prints, then either its readership is mostly women, or men sure do love self-flagellation.

[0] http://www.peplaulab.ucla.edu/Peplau_Lab/Publications_files/...

Re: Do Men Suck At Friendship?

#142
post #140

I've realized that many men (I know) want to talk about their feelings, frustrations, relationships, insecurities etc., when given a good example and opening up a little at first. I learned to do that a couple of years ago, when I was going through difficult times. Went to meet a friend for a couple of beers, started slowly talking, without whining or complaining, about things that make me insecure and we realized op…

You are slowly turning into a girl. Before you'll realize that - you gonna become a transperson :(

I'm willing to take that risk, if that's what it takes.

Re: Do Men Suck At Friendship?

#143

Quoted text below from this source: http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/300997-ok-now-let-s-have-som... OK, now let’s have some fun. Let’s talk about sex. Let’s talk about women. Freud said he didn’t know what women wanted. I know what women want. They want a whole lot of people to talk to. What do they want to talk about? They want to talk about everything. What do men want? They want a lot of pals, and they wish people…

Ha! I was just about to say this reminds me of Kurt Vonnegut's Slapstick, where people get automatically assigned to an extended family. Then I clicked the link at the bottom.

Re: Do Men Suck At Friendship?

#144

Quoted text below from this source: http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/300997-ok-now-let-s-have-som... OK, now let’s have some fun. Let’s talk about sex. Let’s talk about women. Freud said he didn’t know what women wanted. I know what women want. They want a whole lot of people to talk to. What do they want to talk about? They want to talk about everything. What do men want? They want a lot of pals, and they wish people…

EDIT: Didn't realize that whole parent post was a quotation. Sorry.

Well, you^W Vonnegut said that like all men and women are extroverts. Personally, I'd prefer a tiny group of pals (active, any amount of "hey, I know that dude, we talked once ten years ago" is fine), because being a well-connected peer in a large communications cluster is tiresome.

Oh, and I know at least one case where extended family caused a divorce. Guess that's a fairly common case, as finding consensus and maintaining good relationships within a large group is a harder task than between two persons.

Re: Do Men Suck At Friendship?

#146
post #122
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder when "America" ceased to mean "the two continents North and South America" and started to mean "USA" in the heads of US citizens. There's a reason why "European" isn't synonymous to "German", and why "Asian" isn't synonymous to "Chinese".

It's been going on since long before you were born. John Adams(our second President) called the United States "America" in his inaugural address. [1] We use "The Americas" to refer to the continents as a pair, and prepend a cardinal direction to refer to one of them individually. Citizens of the Commonwealth of Australia call themselves Australians, despite there being other governments on the continent of Australia.…

Papua New Guinea, East Timor, and some Indonesian islands, if anyone else is curious exactly what else is on the same shelf.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_%28continent%29

Re: Do Men Suck At Friendship?

#147
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really resonates with me too at a personal level but at the same time it's quite surprising if this is indeed so widespread across men. I'm an extreme introvert with few, if any, close friends and relationships or a strong desire for such, and it has always befuddled me how smooth and effortless many friendships look from the outside. The whole concept of "hanging out" without some common ground or a common activi…

I've found that there are people that I instantly click with, typically people to whom I can speak my mind without any filter, and who come back at me with theirs. I think filters and worrying about being inoffensive in general really gets in the way for a lot of people. I think that if you want to get past the polite acquaintance stage, you have to risk offending them, which can be scary, but I think one really good…

My bad social habit which I am working on correcting is in imposing a thought on someone's personal life a bit too eagerly, which for me usually begins with the phrases, "so then it's like..." or "you should..." - I got caught out on the former phrase just today, in fact. When they take offense it's always a blow to me since I don't want to be That Guy, but I have to admit that I get the same sense that people I really click with don't even bother taking offense at that stuff. They're okay with having a conversation that has some conjecture and vulnerability, and some difficulty of thought conveyance, built into it.

Conversely, I get a really bad impression when the defense mechanism rolls out, particularly so when it's elaborate, practiced, and snarky. A strong rejection indicates that I've tread into territory they'd really want to not dwell upon. Extreme snark is even worse since it indicates that their intention is to control the power dynamic. The time I encountered that, I found myself boomeranging it by replying "I'm too trusting."

Re: Do Men Suck At Friendship?

#148
post #116
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder when "America" ceased to mean "the two continents North and South America" and started to mean "USA" in the heads of US citizens. There's a reason why "European" isn't synonymous to "German", and why "Asian" isn't synonymous to "Chinese".

There's no other word in English to say "from the US". When I'm talking with my Latino friends who don't like me using the word "American", I just say "gringo". But that obviously doesn't work well for general usage.

Yes, there's another word you're expected sometimes to use when traveling in South America: estadounidense. There's no equivalent in English, it would be USian.

Re: Do Men Suck At Friendship?

#150
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hope I'm missing some sarcasm there.

It was a quote from 'When Harry met Sally', but a study recently backed it up: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/men-and-women-cant...

> but a study recently backed it up

Except it ... doesn't? Not only it doesn't seem to be a well designed study (the 9 point scale doesn't make much sense, there is no graph with the numbers for each answers, etc), the conclusion they get from it seem strange, since most people don't want to go on a date:

On average: Male: 4.55 Female: 3.90, since it's a 9 point scale[1]: 5 mean "Neutral/Unsure" and below is the "no" range.

[1]https://analysights.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/071210_2340_...

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