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Mellow, the robotic sous-chef

cookmellow.com

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Re: Mellow, the robotic sous-chef

#71

Post by tptacek »

zemvpferreira wrote: post #69
tptacek wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being able to come home from work with a protein ready to sear (Polyscience and hopefully soon Searzall represent) is definitely helpful. Also, have you held an egg overnight at 144f? That works well?

Proteins aside, auto retrograding potatoes is really nice. It's one of those techniques that makes a huge difference, but you'd never use on a regular day.

Starch retrogradation is neat, but you can do it with a normal circulator really easily. (I'm partial to the IiF 7 minute risotto trick).

What's the win with potatoes while I'm at work? I haven't done potatoes in the circulator successfully yet.

Re: Mellow, the robotic sous-chef

#72

Post by timtadh »

tptacek wrote: post #64
timtadh wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know a lot about sous-vide, I am more of a wood fire and smoking kinda person, but what would prevent you from using a stainless steel canister? That would eliminate the risks from plastic. Perhaps, a ceramic would also work?

You still need to put the food in something that keeps it out of direct contact with the water while not leaving enough space for air to insulate the food.

I see. So a hard sided container won't trasfer heat properly? Sounds like I need to talk to a friend in polymers to really get a grasp on the right approach because I can't really think of a non-polymer material that would meet the flexibility requirement.

In general it seems like sous-vide would result in food similiar to a braise but without the browny bits and the pan sauce? (saying it that way makes it sound unappetising but I understand it is quiet nice) That said, I think while it doesn't have the asthetic of a wood fired smoker, a device like the op's could replace the slow cooker.

Re: Mellow, the robotic sous-chef

#73

Post by tptacek »

timtadh wrote: post #72
tptacek wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You still need to put the food in something that keeps it out of direct contact with the water while not leaving enough space for air to insulate the food.

I see. So a hard sided container won't trasfer heat properly? Sounds like I need to talk to a friend in polymers to really get a grasp on the right approach because I can't really think of a non-polymer material that would meet the flexibility requirement. In general it seems like sous-vide would result in food similiar to a braise but without the browny bits and the pan sauce? (saying it that way makes it sound unap…

Noooooooo. Food is not similar to a braise. The point of low-temp cooking (sous vide is low temp under a hard vacuum) is that the cook locks in a perfect temperature for the food and the water bath never exceeds that temperature. In practice, you aim never to exceed the temperature at which the protein expels all the water from the food; think: absolutely perfectly cooked steak --- or, more magically, think a short rib, cooked to the doneness of a perfect steak, but with all the collagen converted to gelatin as if in a braise; it's the best of both worlds. Because a short rib cooked to the temperature of a perfect steak in an oven would be tough as nails, it's something you can really only achieve in a water bath.

There are other tricks too; you can simultaneously cook a dozen eggs to perfect running or "walking" yolk, without paying any attention; you can cook veg to a temperature between the breakdown of pectin and cellulose; you can heat-temper carnaroli or arborio rice and set the starches, so that you can make bulletproof risotto in a pan by dumping all the liquid in at once.

It's a pretty nifty tool.

Re: Mellow, the robotic sous-chef

#74

Post by johnurbanik »

Admittedly, I don't know much about state of the art sous-vide, but I'd be really interested to see a device with two reservoirs that can be held at different temperatures and fill/drain the main water bath.

Hypothetically, this would allow for cook->chill methods, though the overhead may not be worth it except for a small niche of customers.

Re: Mellow, the robotic sous-chef

#75

Post by tptacek »

zemvpferreira wrote: post #54
polemic wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! I think most people equate "medium rare chicken" with food poisoning, so it was interesting to see that used in the video. Never knew that you could actually cook it safely that way.

Medium rare chicken is like medium rare pork. If you can get over your upbringing enough times to get used to it, you can never go back. It me took 3-4 times for each, and the only reason I stuck with it was that my snobbery overpowered my mother's education. But really, sous-vide, medium rare chicken breast has a taste and texture you'd never think chicken breast could have. Same with pork, it's a revelation on all…

60C is really very low for a chicken breast.

Re: Mellow, the robotic sous-chef

#76

Post by jadence »

tptacek wrote: post #52
jadence wrote: post #47

What temperature-safe bags are out there? I did some digging into this a few months ago and couldn't find anything conclusive. All I found were blogs, quotes, etc by wannabe scientists. Of note: • http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3222987/ Nearly all plastics (even the BPA-free ones) leach estrogenic activity chemicals • http://pprc.org/index.php/2013/networking/p2-rapid/do-plasti... Basically said that the…

Dave Arnold talked to (IIRC) someone from SCJ and below boiling, the Ziplock freezer bags supposedly won't leach plasticizers or anything like that.

Thanks for the reply tptacek!

I tracked down Dave Arnold's report to 9:28 here: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/cooking-issues-episode-1...

In summary: SC Johnson (SJC) told Grant Achatz and others chefs not to use their bags for sous-vide so Dave Arnold contacted SJC and asked specifically about using the bags for sous-vide and explained why he believes the practice is safe. The SJC representative replied with "Ziplock brand bags are designed to withheld being held in high temperature water including being used up to 82 degree Celsius for up to 72 hours." (quote at 12:05 of podcast)

I'd feel better if there was a specific statement about the safety of the food being held in the bag rather than an implication that since the bags withstand the bath the food isn't tainted.

Re: Mellow, the robotic sous-chef

#77

Post by bullfight »

joezydeco wrote: post #35

10 years ago Whirlpool introduced the Polara, a range that could also refrigerate the oven cavity until a timer expired or it was commanded to cook over the internet. It was a huge flop. http://insights-2-ignite.com/2013/05/06/3-appliance-flops/ Obviously a refrigerated oven is a pretty complicated device - more than a cooled/heated water bath. The Polara had it's share of technical problems, but Whirlpool thought th…

I just wanted to point out on the prep part and American families.

The time invested in prep for a device like this is hardly different that prepping a meal and throwing it in a crock pot before work. Crock pots are fantastically popular cooking devices found in almost every American's (middle america especially) kitchen and used on a regular basis.

Personally I have no experience with sous-vide nor am I very familiar to it. Watching he video I was intrigued but a little confused at what and how I could use a sous-vide cooker.

However connecting it and the process of using it to the very familiar crock pot I use at home instantly helped me to recognize the potential use of a device like this.

Re: Mellow, the robotic sous-chef

#78

Post by timtadh »

tptacek wrote: post #73
timtadh wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see. So a hard sided container won't trasfer heat properly? Sounds like I need to talk to a friend in polymers to really get a grasp on the right approach because I can't really think of a non-polymer material that would meet the flexibility requirement. In general it seems like sous-vide would result in food similiar to a braise but without the browny bits and the pan sauce? (saying it that way makes it sound unap…

Noooooooo. Food is not similar to a braise. The point of low-temp cooking (sous vide is low temp under a hard vacuum) is that the cook locks in a perfect temperature for the food and the water bath never exceeds that temperature. In practice, you aim never to exceed the temperature at which the protein expels all the water from the food; think: absolutely perfectly cooked steak --- or, more magically, think a short r…

Sounds neat I will definitely do some research on it. Smoking is a similar process but without a fancy rig you can't get control very precise (+/- 30°f is what I can achieve over an 8 hour smoke. pros can do much better). The idea is similar, low temperature forea long time, until the meat hits the desired temperature.

Re: Mellow, the robotic sous-chef

#79

Post by zemvpferreira »

cfontes wrote: post #70
zemvpferreira wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't apologize, I'm happy to be challenged on these things. It's the way I learn to explain them. Look at the part in our video where Catarina (catv here) walks you through the use-case: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiNmTI51GPw&t=1m17s If you notice, the bag she puts inside Mellow is a HDPE bag for vacuum sealing, unsealed. There's a jump cut or whatchamacallit, but that's how we cook using Mellow. Regular…

You are taking all the questions like a champ. Congrats on that. All very polite, smart and yet giving real answers without slipping off when there is a problem/concern/issue/doubt/whatever. Cheers.

Thank you, trying to be as present as possible. I'm humbled by the reception in HN, I never dreamed of posting about my own product here. Making a billion dollars seemed more likely than this, somehow.

On the questions: I understand the skepticism. We moved very far from what's normal; Mellow isn't an MVP by any means, so I was expecting hard questions on the use case. The fact that people take the trouble of questioning what we're doing instead of just brushing us aside is a big deal for me.

Let me know if you have any questions yourself on sous-vide, Mellow, development or whatever else might go through your mind. I do palm-readings on Fridays.

Re: Mellow, the robotic sous-chef

#80

Post by jadence »

zemvpferreira wrote: post #51
jadence wrote: post #47

What temperature-safe bags are out there? I did some digging into this a few months ago and couldn't find anything conclusive. All I found were blogs, quotes, etc by wannabe scientists. Of note: • http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3222987/ Nearly all plastics (even the BPA-free ones) leach estrogenic activity chemicals • http://pprc.org/index.php/2013/networking/p2-rapid/do-plasti... Basically said that the…

Hey jadence, The bottom line: No one knows how safe HDPE sous-vide is in the long run. There's nothing conclusive out there, though what little evidence there is points to it being safe. Nathan seems so think so, too: http://modernistcuisine.com/2013/01/why-cook-sous-vide/ In the end you have to make a personal call. For me, the risk of undiscovered effects is vastly outweighed by the awesome food I serve. I respect…

Thanks for the reply zemvpferreira.

How are you planning to solve the concern of plastic leaching while maintaining the benefits of sous-vide?

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