Live data from Hacker News

The Fall of Hacking

news.ycombinator.com

91–100 of 115 posts

Re: The Fall of Hacking

#91
post #18
post #2

Those people are still out there; you just don't hear as much about Real Hacking as about more accessible, mainstream stuff. Also, get a blog.

I actually have a lot more respect for people who come here and type their heart out in the open for no other reason than bringing in content and sharing their ideas. Getting a blog is lame compared to that. You get a blog to get ads and attention and a following. On the contrary, noname123, came here, created an account, and wrote his/her heart out for nothing. Expecting nothing, wanting nothing except to be honest…

>"It's too easy now. You don't have to love hacking to build something with computers. You don't have to have passion to build, you just throw some parts together, copy and paste some graphics and change the colors in photoshop to match a named swatch you found at colourlovers. It's kind of sad."

But this is what we've worked for all along. The inevitable result of "Don't Repeat Yourself" and open source. Isn't this what we wanted, to get to a point where programming is easy?

Re: The Fall of Hacking

#92
post #9

What it boils down to, is that systems programming is no longer a necessity for certain kind of start-ups. The applications most people were writing in Turbo C++ were, in some cases, simpler than CRUD screens in PHP. If anything, PHP is today's Basic: the language that kids start with. There's still however systems programming going on, but in the area of client-server communications (RPC/serialization frameworks), d…

Today's basic is Python.

It's even more portable than Java (runs on ARM-based platforms).

Re: The Fall of Hacking

#93
What this really sounds like is a rant about how Hacker News is not a very precisely named website.

Hacker culture is alive and well, and there are plenty of heroes hacking the night away staring at their monitors (though LCD these days), just as there 'always' has been. There are probably more now than there ever has been, actually. There's just a lot more parasites and poseurs around, because computers are mainstream now and there's a lot more money around.

There is a lot more to hacker culture than web startup culture! I don't even consider virtually anything you mentioned a part of hacker culture. PHP and databases? "Software Visionaire/Ruby Ninja"? (bad) business ideas?

Of course people understand the internals of the Linux kernel. You think the people working on it don't understand it? That's a pretty good example of an island in contemporary hacker culture. You don't have to look far in a sea of recreational kernel hackers to find... hackers. The associated mailing lists generate quite a bit more discussion than HN does...

There have always been poseurs and businessman hangers-on, and there always will be. They are obviously not hackers.

Hacker culture, and the existence of true hackers, can never die out. It's hard wired in.

Re: The Fall of Hacking

#94
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some more details would make this post informative rather than simply an arcane inside reference.

August, 1981---IBM releases the first IBM PC, legitimizing home computers and killing of a ton of quirky home computers over the next few years. The Homebrew Computer Club was pretty much over at this point in time anyway. January, 1990---Operation Sun Devil goes down, where the Secret Service arrest a bunch of teenagers who have illegally accessed computers and charged with disseminating internal AT&T documents desc…

Thanks for responding with these! I share your interest in computer history, and I also enjoy seeing, as best I can, computer culture. Never have I seen such a short summarization of the latter which has given me as much insight as this.

Re: The Fall of Hacking

#95
post #6

I love Fall. All the colors and a bit of a cold nip in the air ... the really unusual lights ... yellows and darks ... uncommon moods ... brown packages of straw, too.

My apologies for being slow on the uptake, but is there an analogy here or is this just a simple pun?

Re: The Fall of Hacking

#96
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you completely and my writing was (intentionally) too liberal artsy; so let me put on my technical hat and level with you why hacking is no longer subversive. 1) Growing Complexity of Software Projects : in some sense, it's not about computer programmers "selling out." Because in both FOSS and enterprise software, the code-base has usually third-party dozens if not more dependencies. Writing software is…

> in both FOSS and enterprise software, the code-base has usually third-party dozens if not more dependencies Lua. ColorForth. STEPS. > Writing software is now a team effort There have always been software teams of many different sizes. But most projects on Sourceforge (or Github, or Freshmeat) are one-person projects. > Think back to the day when a individual or two person could write a 2D side-scroller in DOS It wa…

What is STEPS? I tried googling but it is too generic term.

Re: The Fall of Hacking

#97
post #96
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in both FOSS and enterprise software, the code-base has usually third-party dozens if not more dependencies Lua. ColorForth. STEPS. > Writing software is now a team effort There have always been software teams of many different sizes. But most projects on Sourceforge (or Github, or Freshmeat) are one-person projects. > Think back to the day when a individual or two person could write a 2D side-scroller in DOS It wa…

What is STEPS? I tried googling but it is too generic term.

Sorry, I was referring to VPRI's project.

Re: The Fall of Hacking

#98
post #6

I love Fall. All the colors and a bit of a cold nip in the air ... the really unusual lights ... yellows and darks ... uncommon moods ... brown packages of straw, too.

My comment above was code for "truly a dumb post". Geez.

Re: The Fall of Hacking

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard this line hundreds of times before. Hacking is not dead. Something can't be killed if you have the ability to turn on your computer and start doing right away. If you are concerned about whether hacking is alive or dead, perhaps you should fire up your computer and bring it back to life. It's that simple.

I agree with you completely and my writing was (intentionally) too liberal artsy; so let me put on my technical hat and level with you why hacking is no longer subversive. 1) Growing Complexity of Software Projects : in some sense, it's not about computer programmers "selling out." Because in both FOSS and enterprise software, the code-base has usually third-party dozens if not more dependencies. Writing software is…

You are truly oblivious, just blind to what exists in the world.

You're setting up an impossibly strict definition of a word whose definition is not widely agreed upon ("hacker"/"hacking"), then listing things that don't fall under the definition. Good for you. Bad for argument.

> Hacking started as an art, without regard for commerce

How far do you want to trace it back? 60's, 40's? How about a few hundred BC? Doing more with less, finding one's ways around limits has always been around and will always continue to be around.

Dipshit posers wiping their buddies hard drives will always be around, too. Does this make you happy? Is this what you want to be a part of? Would the world be a better place if we were all doing this?

> Writing software is now a team effort

WTF? Lots of stuff is a team effort. Lots of stuff is not a team effort. Don't join a team if you think it'll hold you back. What's your point?

Newton, "If I have seen further it is only by standing on the shoulders of giants." He was just some dilettante using the knowledge discovered and shared by the folks who came before him in a new and interesting way, I guess. Not much effort, there, just a bunch of cut-and-paste of existing code (ideas).

> having an corporate job or starting a Web 2.0 CRUD start-up makes you beholden to either your boss or your potential customers

And turning your computer on makes you beholden to Apple (or Lenovo, or Dell, or ...) and your power and data providers. It's turtles all the way down.

> van Gogh

Are you serious? Yes he did seek commercial approval of his art (Nuenen (1883–1885)) and yes he did choose colors based on what was popular and appearing in the museums of his time (Antwerp (1885–1886)). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_van_Gogh

> the best art inspires, challenges and mocks the audience, but it never panders to its audience

[citation needed]. "Art" is a lot bigger than you're allowing for. Define it however you like. Put that definition in your wallet and show it to people at parties, but please don't assume your definition is bigger, better, or more perfect than everyone else's (says the little postmodernist living in my brain).

> Lack of Encouragement in the Community to Buck the Status Quo

Now you're taking the thing that defines the status quo--"Community"--and then complaining that it wants to follow what it defines? By definition, that's what the community does. Or do you mean that someone whom you believe should be encouraging you to do interesting things is not doing so? What, precisely, is it that "the community" owes you?

> early 90's at the dawn of personal computing

You mean almost 20 years after the introduction of the Apple II (in 1977)? Was that just pre-dawn? Early 90's already had Microsoft running more PCs than any other OS on the planet. That was pretty awesome for innovation and "anything's possible", huh?

> While occasionally Hacker News feature posts

Now you're just whining. If you want the HN scene to be more awesome for you then hang out, post more, and make it awesome. Otherwise, go back to your "real hacking is dead" sub-reddit and mope around there. This is what it is. Hacking is what it is. If your blinders prevent you from seeing awesome, take them off. You are info-rich and thought-poor, you are not entitled to have others filter the world in whatever way you want. If the community you find here isn't the community you want to be a part of, then run away like you're on fire.

> Where are the implementation of the next generation's ideas?

"Where's my flying car?" amiright? Implementations of "the next generation of ideas" are constantly fomenting. Many try, many fail. You've been reading too much futurist sci-fi.

> my commentary turned out to be still pretty liberal artsy

More "trolly" than liberal arts, I'd say.

Re: The Fall of Hacking

#100
post #42

Everything you've written would have been just as true in the 1980s, with a few of the names changed. Then too there were authentic hackers, glib fakers, and corporate drones. The great majority of the computer world in the 1980s was profoundly unsubversive. The smart, subversive people were a tiny minority. They seem a larger proportion when you look back from 30 years later, because the fakers and PHBs had no lasti…

> the fakers and PHBs had no lasting effects

How I wish you were right!

Their lasting effects are evident in the brokenness of all current computing systems.

Post reply on HN