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The New Deal

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: The New Deal

#111

Post by [deleted] »

logicallee wrote: post #73
tptacek wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I just don't agree. 120k barely makes expenses for 1 FTE. Not only that, but it's also an amount of money that a strong freelancer can generate on top of living expenses in a particularly well-utilized year.

You're simply empirically wrong [about the 'amount' of money that represents, whether it is large enough to make a substantial difference], and your anchors[1] are not only irrelevant and misleading in an early-stage context, but extremely toxic.[2] What was Google's first check in the amount of? $100K. It was a ton of money. As Wikipedia points out, "The first funding for Google as a company was secured in August 19…

[deleted]

Re: The New Deal

#112

Post by chaseadam17 »

tomasien wrote: post #106
chaseadam17 wrote: post #95

A lot of companies talk about changing the world, but Teespring really puts their money where their mouth is. Not only have they been quietly supporting us (Watsi) since the beginning, but to commit $50k to every YC non-profit is truly incredible. Teespring is setting the standard for the next generation of startups, and we're proud to call you guys our friends.

Agreed it's amazing - are they getting anything in return? I'm not asking this in a skeptical way, I just mean do the non-profits run tee-springs or are they just donating money? Either way, bravo!

They're not asking for anything in return.

Re: The New Deal

#113

Post by [deleted] »

tptacek wrote: post #87
waterlesscloud wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's cool and all, but what matters to a very early stage startup isn't the cost of hiring an engineer, it's covering the founders' living expenses and whatever business expenses arise (which may be very small). You know this, so I'm not sure why you're off on a tangent about things that don't normally apply in these situations.

There was a long comment here, but I found a better way to make my point: If I gave you $120k to start a company with 1-2 other people, and you had no other funding commitments, I don't think I'd be changing your odds all that much. But I have no trouble believing that when YC gives founders $120k, they are changing the odds significantly.

[deleted]

Re: The New Deal

#114

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

cperciva wrote: post #4

I can't help thinking that this seems a little bit unfair. While there's a nominal out for "exceptional cases", it seems to me that a company like Stripe deserves a much higher valuation than a company like Tarsnap... not to mention the difference between companies which are joining YC after they're already established and companies which are merely a twinkle in their founders' eyes. What exactly is the problem being…

"a standard deal which almost everybody gets"

Worked for Henry Ford.

Re: The New Deal

#115

Post by _xhok »

Can someone explain what the difference is between before and now? Is it that before you could only spend $17k until you raised your next round but now you get it all at once?

Re: The New Deal

#116

Post by devinmontgomery »

This says a lot about the alternatives YC says it's really competing with - the other things people who could build great startups would otherwise be doing.

$17k is what two engineering students might have made at a summer internship in Boston in 2005.

$120k is now what two entry-level engineers might make in six months in the Valley.

Re: The New Deal

#117

Post by tptacek »

[deleted] wrote: post #113
tptacek wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a long comment here, but I found a better way to make my point: If I gave you $120k to start a company with 1-2 other people, and you had no other funding commitments, I don't think I'd be changing your odds all that much. But I have no trouble believing that when YC gives founders $120k, they are changing the odds significantly.

[deleted]

Well, that's a whole lot of repeated assertion, and I respect the effort, but you're not making a great case for yourself.

It would help if you read my comments more carefully. The one you just replied to was particularly simple. Almost the only thing it says is that being a part of YC improves the odds. But the 120k isn't what's doing that.

Re: The New Deal

#118

Post by eldavido »

tptacek wrote: post #60
logicallee wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But $120k is just not a lot of money. The real value of YC is the signal that getting accepted sends to other seed investors. This idea (first quoted sentence) needs to die. It is toxic to the early-stage ecosystem. Any amount of money is a ton of money. Period. You can ignore the hustling that Jobs or Zuckerberg did for literally a couple of thousand dollars - read Zuckerberg's contracts at the time he was at Harv…

Sorry, I just don't agree. 120k barely makes expenses for 1 FTE. Not only that, but it's also an amount of money that a strong freelancer can generate on top of living expenses in a particularly well-utilized year.

Maybe.

I have a roommate in SF. He's freelancing, I'm working at a company. He's making more cash than I am, but I'm working on building a company (as an employee) that's shipped multiple iterations of a category-leading product, raised $XX million in VC, and hired almost 100 people.

I'm not disputing that a good freelancer can clear $120k net of taxes and living expenses, just that that's the best path to take, if the end goal is to be an entrepreneur.

Re: The New Deal

#119

Post by tptacek »

eldavido wrote: post #118
tptacek wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I just don't agree. 120k barely makes expenses for 1 FTE. Not only that, but it's also an amount of money that a strong freelancer can generate on top of living expenses in a particularly well-utilized year.

Maybe. I have a roommate in SF. He's freelancing, I'm working at a company. He's making more cash than I am, but I'm working on building a company (as an employee) that's shipped multiple iterations of a category-leading product, raised $XX million in VC, and hired almost 100 people. I'm not disputing that a good freelancer can clear $120k net of taxes and living expenses, just that that's the best path to take, if t…

Are we sure we're talking about the same thing? I'm not suggesting a freelancer can net $120k in a year. That's easy. I'm suggesting a freelancer can net $120k plus living expenses in a year --- a number perhaps closer to $200k-225k. The reason I think that I that I know a lot of people who do --- many of them outside my (particularly lucrative) specialty.

Practically every established consultancy in the US throws off numbers like that year in year out, as a routine. Which is one reason a lot of consultancies end up spinning up product teams.

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