Maybe the US and Russia could do a prisoner swap - Snowden for Durov?
Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia
51–60 of 109 posts
Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia
#52I'm not sure how to articulate it, but I find it immensely interesting that Snowden fled to Russia, while Pavel is fleeing from Russia, both for issues within similar realms.
Snowden is obviously not in Russia because they value free speech and privacy so much there. He's there because he's safe from the US, and because Putin likes messing with the US. As soon as Putin's interests change, Snowden isn't safe anymore.
Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're not wrong, precisely, but the former method has the virtues of simplicity, forthrightness, and the presentation of a salutary example to others who might find themselves in a similar position. Also, people from the West have been telling Russians that Russia has a lot to learn at least since the fall of the Soviet regime, if not since the days of the tsars. Some who've given such advice have done so out of goo…
This sounds like shit, Putin-ordered propaganda to me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_brigades . HN is not free from this, apparently.
Well, the source on which I'm relying most strongly here, especially for estimates of the death toll of the post-Soviet interregnum, is a newspaper whose American-expatriate writers were hounded out of Russia, shortly after Medvedev "succeeded" Putin to the presidency, over a single article satirizing one of "Medvedev's" new policies.
I suppose you can argue that these events were merely part of an incredibly recondite plan on Putin's part to substantiate otherwise baseless propaganda of the sort you regard my prior comment to be. I can't imagine how anyone could make such an argument with a straight face, but that's not the same as assuming it's not possible.
Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia
#54Facebook will be more than happy to get a piece of VK's users.
Who tried VK, will never go back to Facebook. VK is like the wild west of the web: you find everything for free, from music, to software, porn, books, etc. Facebook is a prudish and mildly authoritarian walled garden. VK smells like freedom. ;)
Smelled, you mean. I'm not saying that all good of Vk was due to Durov, but things are obviously getting more complicated slowly since Mail.Ru group rules it. It can get even worse.
Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
This sounds like shit, Putin-ordered propaganda to me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_brigades . HN is not free from this, apparently.
Well, the source on which I'm relying most strongly here, especially for estimates of the death toll of the post-Soviet interregnum, is a newspaper whose American-expatriate writers were hounded out of Russia, shortly after Medvedev "succeeded" Putin to the presidency, over a single article satirizing one of "Medvedev's" new policies. I suppose you can argue that these events were merely part of an incredibly recondi…
What are you talking about? Can you be a bit more concrete and give a link or another reference to your "source"? You are changing subject of the discussion, derailing it into some allegations against "The West" and its past alleged wrongdoings against Russia, and you are praising Putin at the same time - that really smells like a nowadays Russian internet propaganda, there is so much of this on forums these days, this is what I'm talking about: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/10/rus...
Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia
#56I wonder what kind of role the US had in helping aid the Ukraine revolution? or what role they will have now that its going to be another west vs Russia/Putin showdown.
Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia
#57I'm not sure how to articulate it, but I find it immensely interesting that Snowden fled to Russia, while Pavel is fleeing from Russia, both for issues within similar realms.
Several comments at the same comment level as this comment seem to take seriously the assertion that Snowden only incidentally ended up in Russia. In fact, his route from Hawaii to Hong Kong (a territory controlled by the central government of China) and then on to Russia looks very suspicious to readers who know what airline flights connected at that time of year from Hawaii to other places. Moreover, Snowden had contact with agents of the Russian government while he was still in Hong Kong[1], after he left his hotel there. From the beginning, as a person who has traveled to Hong Kong (and, for that matter, to Hawaii) before, I have been puzzled by his choice of air routes.
[1] http://www.slate.com/blogs/business_insider/2013/11/01/edwar...
Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia
#58In a dictatorship, if the ones holding power want to take control of an internet company holding data about the personal lives of hundreds of millions of people, they do so by ousting the CEO and taking control the hard way. In a democracy with a free market, if the ones holding power want to take control of an internet company which holds data about the personal lives of hundreds of millions of people, they do so by…
Do I understand correctly that you're implying that case with "dictatorship" is in place? If so, you are obviously wrong. Good example of "the hard way" was notorious Yukos' case, which is drastically different from this one. Mail.Ru have a good share in stocks for the long time and that's a matter for discussion I won't participate in, if they can be considered to be "part of the oligarchy in place" (they can). UCP has the rest of the stocks, which belonged to different people the last year. Durov had only 12% for quite a long time already. And Durov himself is alive and well and left Russia only after getting rid of Vk completely, and some say he wasn't even fired (they say that he wrote retirement letter on 23.03 already, and never revoked it; Durov claims otherwise; where's the truth remains to be unknown).
Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, the source on which I'm relying most strongly here, especially for estimates of the death toll of the post-Soviet interregnum, is a newspaper whose American-expatriate writers were hounded out of Russia, shortly after Medvedev "succeeded" Putin to the presidency, over a single article satirizing one of "Medvedev's" new policies. I suppose you can argue that these events were merely part of an incredibly recondi…
What are you talking about? Can you be a bit more concrete and give a link or another reference to your "source"? You are changing subject of the discussion, derailing it into some allegations against "The West" and its past alleged wrongdoings against Russia, and you are praising Putin at the same time - that really smells like a nowadays Russian internet propaganda, there is so much of this on forums these days, th…
While I don't like what Russia is doing regarding civil rights and Ukraine - accusing the people you debate of being paid to tell lies is poor form and hurts the point you're trying to make.
Especially because most people that support Putin do so not for money, but because they are Russian nationalists and consider Putin foreign policy a good idea. That's sad, and explains nicely why Russia couldn't transform into democratic country, but whatever, it doesn't mean everybody who thinks differently is paid.
Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, the source on which I'm relying most strongly here, especially for estimates of the death toll of the post-Soviet interregnum, is a newspaper whose American-expatriate writers were hounded out of Russia, shortly after Medvedev "succeeded" Putin to the presidency, over a single article satirizing one of "Medvedev's" new policies. I suppose you can argue that these events were merely part of an incredibly recondi…
What are you talking about? Can you be a bit more concrete and give a link or another reference to your "source"? You are changing subject of the discussion, derailing it into some allegations against "The West" and its past alleged wrongdoings against Russia, and you are praising Putin at the same time - that really smells like a nowadays Russian internet propaganda, there is so much of this on forums these days, th…
My source is the eXile, and while their archives from the years during which they published in print are in some disarray, you may safely take this article [1] by John Dolan as representative of its editorial stance on the matter under discussion. I grant that this does not constitute a primary source; on the other hand, my reading of the relevant history gives me no reason to find the claim at all incredible. Perhaps your understanding of history suggests otherwise. If so, you would do well to detail that understanding in order to support the claim you're making, rather than persisting in your attempts to discredit my statements by means of blatant ad hominem.
You seem to be reading a great deal into my statements on the subject. A more objective reading of those statements will reveal that I have uttered no more praise for Vladimir Putin than merely that he has consistently acted in Russia's interests, as is the minimal obligation of any head of state toward his nation. That's more or less what I've said about those from the West who have purported to act on Russia's behalf in recent history, as well; while I grant some of them acted in accord with their claimed motivations, others have acted in accord with their own interests and without regard to those of Russia, a claim which seems to me rather trivially defensible.
I am a citizen of the United States, and I have no particular love for Russia beyond the basic respect which any citizen of one sovereign nation may reasonably be expected to extend to another. Where you're getting the moral weighting, which you insist upon applying to my remarks in this thread, is a mystery to me, but regardless of its origins, the interpretation which results is entirely your own, and does not well represent the facts of the matter.
Of course you're welcome to your own opinion, as is anyone who participates in civil conversation, but I will thank you very kindly to desist from further accusing me of being in the pay of the Russian FSB. Quite aside from the fact that to act in such fashion would constitute a betrayal of the nation which has commanded my lifelong loyalty, I am, as already noted, subject to the laws of the United States, and I cannot imagine any way in which I could act as you've accused me of doing without placing myself in grave contravention of those laws.
[1]: http://www.exile.ru/print.php?ARTICLE_ID=6677&IBLOCK_ID=35