Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia • Hacker News Board

Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia

#41

Post by krick » Tue, Apr 22, 2014, 6:55 PM UTC

jsumrall wrote: post #3

I'm not sure how to articulate it, but I find it immensely interesting that Snowden fled to Russia, while Pavel is fleeing from Russia, both for issues within similar realms.

It's only natural to hide from somebody on his (I don't want to use the word "foe", but I can't find anything better) foe's territory.

…That's only to be fair, but I'm not sure they have issues in similar realms. I don't deny it, but I'm not sure. While Snowden is some "justice warrior" fighting over the idea who is obviously not welcome in the USA, Durov is much more prosaic person. I mean, he may have some ideas and moral principles he can't neglect, but he is a businessman, clever guy prone to dramatic performances and, honestly, quite a weasel himself. And it's not even clear if he has reasons to be hated by some secret sovernment agents or something as Snowden is. He is not an owner and not even an employee of Vk anymore. He does't claim to know some government secrets or anything. And while it's possible (likely, actually) that he was forced to get rid of stocks, his company wasn't really "taken" from him. I mean, he sold it, he got his money, he didn't suddenly disappear and wasn't taken to jail like Khodorkovsky, when there possibly were reasons for that. And now he has nothing to do with Vk, and there're claims that he wasn't even forced to quit. Weird, huh.

So I'd say there's quite a probability of that thing being just another spectacle.

Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia

#42

Post by RomanPushkin » Tue, Apr 22, 2014, 6:55 PM UTC

joshstrange wrote: post #38

RomanPushkin wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Link to russian version on Pavel's personal page: http://vk.com/id1?w=wall1_45616 Nobody was forcing him to write this. It is exactly what he thinks about Russia. PS But sometimes people can change their opinion in a month :)

>> Nobody was forcing him to write this. It is exactly what he thinks about Russia. Just because it was posted to his person page does not mean he wasn't coerced into writing/posting it.

Oh. Now I think he has a freedom to say whether he was coerced or not.

Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia

#43

Post by RivieraKid » Tue, Apr 22, 2014, 6:56 PM UTC

jsumrall wrote: post #3

I'm not sure how to articulate it, but I find it immensely interesting that Snowden fled to Russia, while Pavel is fleeing from Russia, both for issues within similar realms.

It's pretty simple actually. Russia is one of the few countries that aren't willing to extradict Snowden to the US and are able to resist pressure to do so.

Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia

#44

Post by cema » Tue, Apr 22, 2014, 6:57 PM UTC

rosser wrote: post #21

melling wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's so hard to understand? Hacker News has a lot of naive people who have no idea how the world works. Hey, the 80's called, and if you were born during or after, it's probably time to ask what you don't understand. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2014/03/...

You aren't exactly wrong, but being smug about it doesn't make for productive discourse.

Smugness is not a virtue, but sometimes an emotional appeal is helping. I agree that we would like to see less of than on HN.

Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia

#45

Post by cema » Tue, Apr 22, 2014, 6:59 PM UTC

RomanPushkin wrote: post #32

nnq wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This source (11 March VK post, 12 March rusbase article) is older than the article (Apr 22).

Older, but what? All of the benefits of Russia have disappeared within a month?

  All of the benefits of Russia have disappeared within a month?

Could have been, considering the recent events.

Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia

#46

Post by cvbncvbncgbc » Tue, Apr 22, 2014, 7:01 PM UTC

jnbiche wrote: post #27

calcsam wrote: post #2

Here's to wishing Snowden had asked Putin about this, rather than giving him political cover to orchestrate it...

And lose literally his last place of refuge capable of withstanding U.S. demands in the world? If he pisses Russia off, he's either in a Russian jail (horrible) or in US hands (possibly equally horrible). Why do you want this? Has he not sacrificed enough of his life? Almost everyone, Russians most of all, know that Russia conducts fearsome mass surveillance of its own population. It was Snowden's revelations about t…

He actually did ask a question directly to Putin( I must admit he has guts ) that is relevant to this debate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1yH554emkY

Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia

#47

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Apr 22, 2014, 7:02 PM UTC

aaronem wrote: post #30

GuiA wrote: post #16

In a dictatorship, if the ones holding power want to take control of an internet company holding data about the personal lives of hundreds of millions of people, they do so by ousting the CEO and taking control the hard way. In a democracy with a free market, if the ones holding power want to take control of an internet company which holds data about the personal lives of hundreds of millions of people, they do so by…

You're not wrong, precisely, but the former method has the virtues of simplicity, forthrightness, and the presentation of a salutary example to others who might find themselves in a similar position. Also, people from the West have been telling Russians that Russia has a lot to learn at least since the fall of the Soviet regime, if not since the days of the tsars. Some who've given such advice have done so out of goo…

[deleted]

Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia

#48

Post by taco_john » Tue, Apr 22, 2014, 7:02 PM UTC

So does anyone have a recap of this chain of events?

From the last time I heard about this, it sounded like he was bullied into selling his shares to one of Putin's buddies, and stepping down. Then he said he would like to stay in Russia, now he's fleeing?

Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia

#49

Post by krick » Tue, Apr 22, 2014, 7:05 PM UTC

acqq wrote: post #11

Imagine Zuckerberg selling his Facebook shares, then claiming to flee from USA for not willing to give the data from the Facebook to the FBI. Which of course Facebook (just like any other competitor like Google and Microsoft) gives since it's all regulated by the law: https://www.facebook.com/about/government_requests Disclaimer: I don't know how much Durov actually sold. Any additional info welcome.

The last time it was 12% (which is all he had of Vk stocks). There's no info of money amount involved, but I susoect if it was something ridiculously small we'd hear about that already from Durov himself, and estimate of how much it was worth is $M300-400.

Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia

#50

Post by kome » Tue, Apr 22, 2014, 7:06 PM UTC

barce wrote: post #33

Facebook will be more than happy to get a piece of VK's users.

Who tried VK, will never go back to Facebook. VK is like the wild west of the web: you find everything for free, from music, to software, porn, books, etc.

Facebook is a prudish and mildly authoritarian walled garden. VK smells like freedom. ;)