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The Fall of Hacking

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Re: The Fall of Hacking

#71

Post by radu_floricica »

pg wrote: post #42

Everything you've written would have been just as true in the 1980s, with a few of the names changed. Then too there were authentic hackers, glib fakers, and corporate drones. The great majority of the computer world in the 1980s was profoundly unsubversive. The smart, subversive people were a tiny minority. They seem a larger proportion when you look back from 30 years later, because the fakers and PHBs had no lasti…

For the young programmer 12 years ago it was still easier to get absorbed in a "hacking" culture - or so it was for me. At that time I thought linux, assembly and writing a virus in Pascal were very cool things, and I didn't have a problem getting my friends to agree. It seemed very natural then.

I admit I don't know many high-schoolers now, but my feeling is they really are less hacking-inclined, at least around here (Eastern Europe). I'd guess the main difference is access to information. Then it was very rationed - I remember learning assembly from a reference manual. Now Internet offers a lot less obstacles, so I don't really see a point for "subversiveness", at least in mainstream programming.

Re: The Fall of Hacking

#73

Post by CrLf »

redcap wrote: post #35
Locke1689 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd probably argue that it was "bad shit," good times ;) I know hackers is basically a bad movie, but it does have a special place in my heart. I'm not exactly sure why....

It's the mythos - breaking out hackers as something 'cool' - despite all the dumb hollywood stuff in the movie.

Dumb hollywood stuff that, funny enough, seems to be praised when it comes in dead tree format (eg. Neuromancer).

Thing is, cyberpunk is not hacking. Buffer overflows are not hacking. It never was, actually. Hacking is about building and learning, not about showing off your skills (which in most cases aren't really there).

Re: The Fall of Hacking

#75

Post by shiranaihito »

noname123 wrote: post #48
BrentRitterbeck wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard this line hundreds of times before. Hacking is not dead. Something can't be killed if you have the ability to turn on your computer and start doing right away. If you are concerned about whether hacking is alive or dead, perhaps you should fire up your computer and bring it back to life. It's that simple.

I agree with you completely and my writing was (intentionally) too liberal artsy; so let me put on my technical hat and level with you why hacking is no longer subversive. 1) Growing Complexity of Software Projects : in some sense, it's not about computer programmers "selling out." Because in both FOSS and enterprise software, the code-base has usually third-party dozens if not more dependencies. Writing software is…

Tell me, did Van Gogh or Sylvia Plath do focus group/market research so that they could decide which colors and content category would be most pleasing to their audience before they set out to compose their painting/poetry?

There's nothing to prevent you from becoming the Van Gogh of programming, so there's no need to bemoan the mundanity of corporate coding either. It's obviously not your cup of tea, so do something wonderful instead.

If you want to do something amazing, just pick an amazing project and go crazy.

Maybe you'll start the next Google, or maybe you'll struggle to get by for 35 years in a row. Life is a series of compromises, disappointments, challenges, and all kinds of weird and wonderful things sprinkled in between. Pick your poison.

Re: The Fall of Hacking

#76

Post by ahoyhere »

To be fair, the early hackers didn't really have an aura of cool, except to other hackers. Popular opinion painted them as basement dwellers (many of them were) and maladjusted youth (script kiddies - many of them were that, too).

The fictionalized stuff didn't reflect reality. Just a little bit more extreme than the fictionalized stuff now (big payouts, glamourous parties, etc).

Re: The Fall of Hacking

#77

Post by ahoyhere »

pj wrote: post #18
wmf wrote: post #2

Those people are still out there; you just don't hear as much about Real Hacking as about more accessible, mainstream stuff. Also, get a blog.

I actually have a lot more respect for people who come here and type their heart out in the open for no other reason than bringing in content and sharing their ideas. Getting a blog is lame compared to that. You get a blog to get ads and attention and a following. On the contrary, noname123, came here, created an account, and wrote his/her heart out for nothing. Expecting nothing, wanting nothing except to be honest…

The socialite blog thing will die down.

All it takes is for all the herd to realize that there's not money in it, not the way they think, and the social currency you get by being in that crowd will disappear.

Re: The Fall of Hacking

#78

Post by ahoyhere »

noname123 wrote: post #48
BrentRitterbeck wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard this line hundreds of times before. Hacking is not dead. Something can't be killed if you have the ability to turn on your computer and start doing right away. If you are concerned about whether hacking is alive or dead, perhaps you should fire up your computer and bring it back to life. It's that simple.

I agree with you completely and my writing was (intentionally) too liberal artsy; so let me put on my technical hat and level with you why hacking is no longer subversive. 1) Growing Complexity of Software Projects : in some sense, it's not about computer programmers "selling out." Because in both FOSS and enterprise software, the code-base has usually third-party dozens if not more dependencies. Writing software is…

> 3) Lack of Encouragement in the Community to Buck the Status Quo

If you have to be encouraged to buck the status quo, you're not really bucking the status quo. You cannot be invited to be an iconoclast.

Re: The Fall of Hacking

#79

Post by pbhjpbhj »

IMO being a hacker has nothing to do with computers. Also, I'm amazed that people here are still making the mistake of conflating crackers - those who make unauthorised access to [computer] systems - with hackers. Presumably you think you're breaking the law by coming on "Hacker News"?

Re: The Fall of Hacking

#80

Post by khafra »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #66
vaksel wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah real hacking is still around, just take a look at any torrent tracker to find pretty much any app/game hacked. Or better yet how about all those security breaches at Pentagon and NASA. The reason you don't see "real" hackers hacking, is because they aren't eager to have public identities, since they don't feel like getting arrested/sued into oblivion.

Err, isn't there a little confusion between hacker and cracker here?

In the post, noname123 says "hacker," but the areas of endeavor he's discussing cross that boundary. More importantly, the activities he talks about were always restricted to small, secretive communities--I had no idea that stuff was going on 'til the early 90s.

And guess what? The original set of activities, with the original motivation, is still going on in small, secretive communities. It's just hard to tell when your particular community dissolved long ago, and you haven't run across any others in a very obvious way.

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