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Ask HN: Is UML still relevant today?

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Re: Ask HN: Is UML still relevant today?

#41

Post by Todd »

endgame wrote: post #26
jashmenn wrote: post #4

If you learn only one diagram from UML, take the time to understand and use Sequence Diagrams [1]. Being able to break down an interaction into a sequence diagram (especially between 2 or 3 servers) is a powerful thought tool for specifying interactions and its easy for people to understand. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequence_diagram

zenbowman's reply is [dead]. Why?

I'm not sure, but I'm guessing it's because of the dismissive tone regarding early proponents. I lived through this period and remember being attracted to Booch notation and similar early efforts (as well as GoF patterns, etc.). Ours is still a relatively young profession and before UML codified some of the ways to view problems clearly (from a particular perspective), one was often reduced to writing out algorithms and data structures and diagramming in off-the-cuff ways.

Re: Ask HN: Is UML still relevant today?

#42

Post by smaudet »

Here's another way of putting it:

Are squiggly boxes with lines and words in them still usefull? And maybe we should have some convention around them squigglies?

Well, considering you're reading this on a screen filled with squiggly boxes and lines and words, yes, I'd say that much is still useful.

The advantage of UML, as with any standard, is that it is a universal way of drawing those squiggly lines and boxes. If you've ever tried to draw a software representation, you'll realize its actually quite difficult to do.

Until language and conventions stop being useful, UML will remain.

Re: Ask HN: Is UML still relevant today?

#46

Post by patio11 »

UML is used in many companies, but learning it is probably not the highest leverage use of your time. Be forewarned that it comes out of the same general regions within the enterprise as WindowAdapterFactoryServiceLocatorFactory.

Personally, in about a decade of programming, I've only had call to say "You know what we need right now? A UML diagram, that's what." about two or three times, and it is always about a sequence diagram for fairly complicated protocols.

Re: Ask HN: Is UML still relevant today?

#47

Post by sshine »

No. TL;DR: Drawing is useful, UML is not.

For database designs, textual schemas, E/R diagrams or plain SQL are sufficient. I've drawn plenty of state diagrams without crediting UML handbooks. E/R diagrams can double as "class diagrams" in the sense that you don't need all the complexity of properties and methods in a diagram to convey which classes exist and how they're related.

People who think that drawing bubbles with arrows between them is a language, in more than a philosophical-linguistic sense, should probably take some more certificates.

To be fair, and to repeat some answers I've read so far: Of course, some diagrams are very useful. But to credit UML because individuals find it useful and necessary to draw things is stretching it.

Re: Ask HN: Is UML still relevant today?

#48

Post by sshine »

fjordan wrote: post #44

If not UML, what do you recommend for most effective communication? ERDs? Documentation tools? Or do you simply tell the engineer to read the code?

Yes, just read the code (and whatever textual documentation comes along with it). The best I can hope for is a set of OO interfaces that is really well-described in their comments. And some oral presentation/walkthrough. And some small tasks to get me acquainted with a new codebase. If there's a large library, some HTML-based documentation, perhaps even with examples, is very fine.

Re: Ask HN: Is UML still relevant today?

#49

Post by mark_l_watson »

jashmenn wrote: post #4

If you learn only one diagram from UML, take the time to understand and use Sequence Diagrams [1]. Being able to break down an interaction into a sequence diagram (especially between 2 or 3 servers) is a powerful thought tool for specifying interactions and its easy for people to understand. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequence_diagram

+1 exactly right

I co-wrote a book on UML years ago, used to be an enthusiast. Now I write some sequence diagrams, and once in a while might write a high level class diagram.

It is all about communication, and a sequence diagram is good for that.

Re: Ask HN: Is UML still relevant today?

#50

Post by glitchdout »

Rabidgremlin wrote: post #32
contingencies wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A great open source tool for these is http://www.mcternan.me.uk/mscgen/

Also https://www.websequencediagrams.com/ and http://www.umlet.com/ (if you need to do more then just sequence diagrams)

And I'd like to add js-sequence-diagrams: http://bramp.github.io/js-sequence-diagrams/
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