Never Negotiate Your Freelance Rate • Hacker News Board

Re: Never Negotiate Your Freelance Rate

#21

Post by raverbashing » Sun, Apr 20, 2014, 9:59 PM UTC

Or just quote an inflated price (and don't make it public)

Does it turn away honest customers?

Sure, you want to quote the fair price to the honest customers and a higher price to those who haggle. The trick is finding out which is which.

Now, for companies, always, always quote the inflated price. And for some, there's the possibility of going 100% above. I'm not kidding.

A negotiation, even a small one, demonstrate that the parts tried to converge to a fair price. It's one thing to buy something with a price tag from a faceless corporation, another to negotiate something.

Re: Never Negotiate Your Freelance Rate

#22

Post by chc » Sun, Apr 20, 2014, 10:05 PM UTC

keithwarren wrote: post #11

15 years on my own and after having this discussion with clients nearly every single time we begin a relationship, I have learned to embrace rather than fear the situation. Often times this is a pattern, the person on the other end feels like they need to get a win in some form and the easiest and most obvious to them is always pricing. Find out why they are asking this question, find out what they really want - 8 ou…

If the price is too high, you can bring it down without gutting your rate. Just tell them what can be done in their budget. (So instead of "Fine, I'll come down to $75/hour," it's "Here's how much work each component is likely to be. Cutting any of these sets will bring it into your budget range. We can always revisit them later once the project starts earning back its cost.")

Re: Never Negotiate Your Freelance Rate

#23

Post by quintinoliver » Sun, Apr 20, 2014, 10:06 PM UTC

keithwarren wrote: post #11

15 years on my own and after having this discussion with clients nearly every single time we begin a relationship, I have learned to embrace rather than fear the situation. Often times this is a pattern, the person on the other end feels like they need to get a win in some form and the easiest and most obvious to them is always pricing. Find out why they are asking this question, find out what they really want - 8 ou…

May I ask what kind of freelance work you do? As a software developer (Europe) with 7 years of experience, looking at various freelance sites, it seems like the rate I could ask is just around 10 to 15$/hr.

Re: Never Negotiate Your Freelance Rate

#24

Post by lotsofpulp » Sun, Apr 20, 2014, 11:08 PM UTC

sparkzilla wrote: post #18

judk wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This practice turns off honest customers who just want good work at a good rate. Those customers will just not call you, or go to a competitor who has lower no-bullshit face pricing

Everyone wants a discount. The first thing I do when I see "fixed pricing" is ask for a discount. If I don't get one I move on to the next supplier.

It depends on who needs who. If you have enough customers that you can afford to avoid haggling with a buyer, then that's great for the seller. If the seller is deciding between no money and some money, then they might have to haggle. Right now, I'm lucky enough that I don't have to haggle when I sell my services. It saves both me and the buyer time, because they know they can't afford me and go move on.

Re: Never Negotiate Your Freelance Rate

#25

Post by lotsofpulp » Sun, Apr 20, 2014, 11:14 PM UTC

joshfraser wrote: post #14

People like to feel like they got a deal. They want to be able to go back to their boss and tell how they talked you down from $250/hr to $200/hr. Why not pad your pricing to begin with and let them feel like they won? This is particularly important for dealing with people for big corporations where buyers are evaluated on their ability to squeeze vendors. In the end, you'll still get the price you need but you can l…

>Why not pad your pricing to begin with and let them feel like they won?

One reason is that if the seller doesn't need the buyer, then negotiating prices is a waste of time for the seller.

Re: Never Negotiate Your Freelance Rate

#26

Post by kevingadd » Sun, Apr 20, 2014, 11:24 PM UTC

fizx wrote: post #7

Or, you can do what everyone else does. Set your rates 20% higher and give anyone who asks a 20% discount. Or set your rates 10% higher, and give a 20% discount for something that is valuable to you, but not necessarily valuable to the client (e.g. prepayment).

For a recent project I gave them a small discount off my hourly rate in exchange for an agreement that we'd open-source a part of the software I developed for them. Works out great for all involved parties - they save money and look good, I can leverage my work for future projects (either as a portfolio piece or to solve future problems)

Re: Never Negotiate Your Freelance Rate

#27

Post by jesusmichael » Sun, Apr 20, 2014, 11:43 PM UTC

keithwarren wrote: post #11

15 years on my own and after having this discussion with clients nearly every single time we begin a relationship, I have learned to embrace rather than fear the situation. Often times this is a pattern, the person on the other end feels like they need to get a win in some form and the easiest and most obvious to them is always pricing. Find out why they are asking this question, find out what they really want - 8 ou…

I agree with this approach... New clients really don't know how good Vendor A is over Vendor B. They may "Like" you but that doesn't mean they are going to marry you if they can't bring in their project within budget.

I'm flexible on rate based on a "fixed scope", any out of scope hours are billed at my "standard" rate. This puts the burden of "scope creep" on the side of the client.

I like to give me clients an incentive to work with me and to take the project seriously. If they get it cheap. They'll abuse you, if they feel like your rates are too high they will either move on or work with you and be very inflexible with any push back on other issues.

The rate negotiation is just the beginning of the relationship. If you're going to set the tone with inflexibility, that's what your going to get down the road, if you need some work from them.

Re: Never Negotiate Your Freelance Rate

#28

Post by EGreg » Sun, Apr 20, 2014, 11:48 PM UTC

keithwarren wrote: post #11

15 years on my own and after having this discussion with clients nearly every single time we begin a relationship, I have learned to embrace rather than fear the situation. Often times this is a pattern, the person on the other end feels like they need to get a win in some form and the easiest and most obvious to them is always pricing. Find out why they are asking this question, find out what they really want - 8 ou…

Find out why they are asking this question, find out what they really want - 8 out of 10 times for me, it is just them asking because it would be dumb not to ask. Explain your rates, be open and honest about them. If they feel like your rates are too high for them then be willing to negotiate.

Yes! And just like anything else, be prepared for these kinds of questions and have a suggestion that can be accepted by both parties and count as a win. Like having your rates 10% inflated up front, but then giving 10% discount for paying early etc. They want to pay less, and you want to rely on the money coming. Also you can assuage their fears from the other side by proposing intermediate milestones.

Re: Never Negotiate Your Freelance Rate

#29

Post by logicallee » Mon, Apr 21, 2014, 12:16 AM UTC

bdunn wrote: post #6

noir_lord wrote: post #2

I like this. One thing not mentioned that I've found over the years is that sometimes asking for the higher rate from the start increases the clients perceived value of you. This was put succinctly by an old boss of mine "serious people charge serious money". He was full of these another that stuck with me is "Don't charge what you think you are worth, charge what they think you are worth", on one system I built I we…

I once lost a huge project simply because 1) I charged less than my competition ("there must be something wrong with them...") and 2) I didn't add a 20% annual maintenance fee my the proposal. Needless to say, I never made that mistake again. But yeah, I can't agree more. The amazing thing about raising rates (which I think patio11 and I talked about way back when here: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/10/10/kalzumeus-p…

Believe you, but how on Earth did you find this out? (For your anecdote, that those were the two specific reasons you lost the project.)

Re: Never Negotiate Your Freelance Rate

#30

Post by derefr » Mon, Apr 21, 2014, 12:18 AM UTC

joshfraser wrote: post #16

judk wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This practice turns off honest customers who just want good work at a good rate. Those customers will just not call you, or go to a competitor who has lower no-bullshit face pricing

Not always. It comes down to knowing your audience. I'm guessing you've never negotiated with a buyer from a fortune 500 company.

How would you feel if, upon asking for a discount (say, 10% off a $100k contract), I offer to instead raise the base rate just for your contract, so it costs the same in the end, but you can also say you got a discount?