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Employee Equity

blog.samaltman.com

231–240 of 342 posts

Re: Employee Equity

#231

Has anyone had experience with "early exercise" of (non-ISO) options? As I understand it, this strategy lets you treat them for tax purposes as if you bought the underlying stock, meaning no tax liability at vesting or exercise, and capital gains are all you pay at final sale. The downside is you have to pony up for the full strike price of all the shares at hiring. Works great if the company valuation is still nomin…

You can early exercise non-ISO options if your stock agreement allows it (also ISO but it's a little more complicated). If you also file an 83(b) election then you are indeed treated for tax purposes as if all the shares vested immediately, so if you exercise before the value of the shares exceeds your strike price then you pay no taxes until you sell the shares (or there's an acquisition or something).

http://www.mystockoptions.com/faq/index.cfm/catID/B7469ACD-2...

As you say, the big issue with this is paying the exercise price. There's not really any way around that. If you're going to pay your employees extra money to cover the exercise price then you might as well just give them shares instead of options. Another option is to loan the money to employees. I don't know how common that is with startups.

Re: Employee Equity

#232

Has anyone had experience with "early exercise" of (non-ISO) options? As I understand it, this strategy lets you treat them for tax purposes as if you bought the underlying stock, meaning no tax liability at vesting or exercise, and capital gains are all you pay at final sale. The downside is you have to pony up for the full strike price of all the shares at hiring. Works great if the company valuation is still nomin…

I have experience with early grant of non-ISO shares, which may be different from what you're asking about.

I was granted shares (on a vesting schedule) at the time of formation of the company. I paid tax up front on the entire potential share grant when the shares were valued at $0.000001/share, which was a reasonable valuation at the time (very high risk, no tech proof, no demonstrated market, etc.). Although I have a significant # of shares and a significant % of equity in the company, the tax I paid was quite affordable. See 83(b) election.

If it pans out and I sell my equity, I will pay long-term capital gains on the difference between the valuation at the time of my 83(b) election and the sale price. If it doesn't pan out, I'm not exposed to AMT or other tax weirdnesses that other posters have noted. I found this mechanism useful.

Re: Employee Equity

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

overperformance is far more dangerous (in large companies) than underperformance. Why? Can you explain.

Most underperformers don't really cause any problems. They work slowly and can't be assigned anything important, but over time the organization can adapt to them. Consequently, nothing really happens to them until there's a general belt-tightening. Usually, because people don't like being dicks and most underperformers aren't disliked, they're rolled into a general layoff and get a severance. Overperformers, on the o…

'(on a bogus "performance" case where you're set up to fail) ' Can you elaborate?

Re: Employee Equity

#234
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has anyone stopped to think what a massive failing of the startup part of the industry this is? Practically everything I read online indicates that if you consider your stock options to have any value at all even in a moderately successful company, you are a major sucker and about to get exploited. Surely this must reduce the quality of the talent pool available to new startups, as the experienced developers conclude…

First of all, if you go looking for market inefficiencies in tech hiring (across the board, not just at startups), you will find lots of them. Software development hiring is folkloric; traditions handed down from Sr. Mgr Software Developer to Associate Developer tracing back to the beginning of time (1982 or so). Second, regarding the talent pool available to employers, two factors confound the analysis: the first an…

> software developers are as a demographic cohort terrible at negotiating.

Yep. It's no real surprise that coders are mostly men with poor social skills, while HR is mostly women with good ones, most of whom those men find attractive. Classic Valley symbiosis.

Re: Employee Equity

#235
Altman's post suggests that the context needs changing. I suspect it needs changing to keep up with some of the very changes YC has wrought - changes to VC and the creation of startups and the options available to the sorts of employees startup founders need.

The issue is that the new startup culture has diversified power and our concept of 'business founder' is out of date. A software company founder is not the analog of a white shoe law firm partner. A personal realtionship with Jeff Bezos isn't why people buy toasters from Amazon or host their SAS on AWS, because it's not some Rolodex full of 30 year of golf course relationships and keeping the jobs of bureaucrats secure that make it rain. "On the internet nobody knows you're a dog.* [1] Or cares that you're a founder.

While I agree with Altman that something needs to change in the direction of making employee's richer ,I think he probably doesn't go far enough. The problem isn't so much tax code as capital structure and the rigidity of company structure that results.

A key hire is a key hire because it changes the company. Ideally, a company would change it's structure to reflect that change. Ideally, a company's capital and corporate structures would be agile as in development.

Key employees are just as exposed to the 'you can be a founder' meme as everyone else, and they're in a better position to pursue it than most. A founder shouldn't expect talent to hang around making them rich. In terms of game theory, I think of it as a founder's dilemma. Altman's piece suggests YC might be seeing it too.

In the current context, a founders's 30% of a $40,000,000 exit is better than even a 1% employe share of a $1,000,000,000 one - much better perhaps than the numbers would suggest because 30% gets a seat at the table, and that old Mark Cuban idea of looking around the table? Well if you're not at the table, the worst case is you're just dead money picking up the tab for someone's boat payment.

[1] http://www.paulgraham.com/hiring.html

Re: Employee Equity

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, if you go looking for market inefficiencies in tech hiring (across the board, not just at startups), you will find lots of them. Software development hiring is folkloric; traditions handed down from Sr. Mgr Software Developer to Associate Developer tracing back to the beginning of time (1982 or so). Second, regarding the talent pool available to employers, two factors confound the analysis: the first an…

> software developers are as a demographic cohort terrible at negotiating. Yep. It's no real surprise that coders are mostly men with poor social skills, while HR is mostly women with good ones, most of whom those men find attractive. Classic Valley symbiosis.

I think that is just poor stereotyping.

Most of the software developers I've worked with in my career have had very good social skills, those that didn't, were poor developers as well... So are they bad negotiators because of they lack negotiating ability, or actual ability?

Is there data on the social skills of IT, HR, Gender breakdown etc... Perhaps what you are refering to is a U.S (?) phenomenon?

Re: Employee Equity

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, if you go looking for market inefficiencies in tech hiring (across the board, not just at startups), you will find lots of them. Software development hiring is folkloric; traditions handed down from Sr. Mgr Software Developer to Associate Developer tracing back to the beginning of time (1982 or so). Second, regarding the talent pool available to employers, two factors confound the analysis: the first an…

> software developers are as a demographic cohort terrible at negotiating. Yep. It's no real surprise that coders are mostly men with poor social skills, while HR is mostly women with good ones, most of whom those men find attractive. Classic Valley symbiosis.

HR people do not as a rule do salary negotiation. You have to be a particularly "special" degree of bad at negotiating to end up out-negotiated by an HR person.

I am sure there are companies that, by outward appearance, do have candidates negotiating with HR people after the interview is over. Step 1 in handling negotiation with those companies: realize that you are not negotiating with HR.

Re: Employee Equity

#238

Altman's post suggests that the context needs changing. I suspect it needs changing to keep up with some of the very changes YC has wrought - changes to VC and the creation of startups and the options available to the sorts of employees startup founders need. The issue is that the new startup culture has diversified power and our concept of 'business founder' is out of date. A software company founder is not the anal…

If this was true, YC would see a trend of companies failing not because they failed to find a product/market fit, but because they had a fit and failed to execute when a key engineering employee left.

And yet YC is forever telling people to focus on "building something people want", above all else. Jessica Livingston just gave an interview listing the things that caused startups to fail; it was a short list, and included "founder breakup" and "failing to build something people want", but not "key engineer leaves".

This squares with ~15 years of experience, mostly in startups, a significant chunk of it in the valley. Recruiting is important, team building is important. But the value of any one "key" developer is lower than your comment makes it out to be. Loss of a key engineer is, for most companies, even in highly technical spaces, easily survivable.

Orthogonally, I'd also suggest you think of a Venn diagram. Draw a circle for "highly effective and appropriately specialized engineer". Now figure out where the circle is for "wants to found a company", and the circle for "intrinsically capable of founding a company", and the circle for "has life circumstances compatible with founding a company".

I get to talk to a lot of developers --- I hire them, at what I believe is a reasonably fast clip, and I work at a consultancy to software development shops --- and I think this notion that everyone wants to found a startup is the product of a lot of HN echo. Most developers do not in fact want to start companies. Starting a company is stressful and, believe it or not, even if you can wangle your way into being a founder many times in a row, it isn't the most reliable path to retiring wealthy.

Re: Employee Equity

#239

Completely off topic, but I'm this post made me realise that Sam Altman went from programmer to enterpreneur to financial guy. This post has very little ado with what he once started doing. He's a partner (and president) of an investment fund now, a pretty odd career move once you take the pink Silicon Valley glasses off. This entire post is about finance. Not about business, not about products, not about customers,…

I was half-expecting him to advocate a "less equity for employees" stance since, superficially, don't investors already compete with founders for percentages? Of course it makes sense on a higher level, e.g. when wanting startups to be desirable workplaces, or wishing for their own ecosystem to be a fair place etc. So, maybe not your average "financial guy"...

There's several factors that make this irrelevant.

1) YC's incentives look very different from VC's: they get common shares, not preferred. This means their incentives are more aligned with the founders than with future investors (for example, if a VC has a controlling stake in the company & wants to fire the founder and dilute the common shares to basically nothing, then YC gets similarly diluted).

2) The dilution effect of the option pool on YC's shares is trumped by the dilution effect of future investments on YC's shares. If expanding the option pool has a marginal dilution affect but dramatically increases the likelihood of success, then that's a no-brainer for YC to push for.

3) YC's business model is dominated by the extreme outlier successes (e.g. Dropbox, AirBnb). Thus, YC does better by doing these three things better:

A. Increasing the likelihood that future successes are funded by YC (i.e. the founding team chooses YC early on)

B. Increasing the probability that a startup will become an outlier success.

C. Given that a startup is becoming an outlier success, multiply that success to the extent possible.

This piece hits nicely at each of those points. For A, YC takes a leadership role in how to structure a cap table, making founders look more to YC. Also, YC startup employees (ie future YC founders) think better of YC. For B and C, once a company grows beyond the founders, each employee makes very meaningful decisions on a daily basis that impact both the company's likelihood of success and magnitude of success. Aligning these employee's motivations with the company's further helps make these decisions better for the company.

Re: Employee Equity

#240
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> software developers are as a demographic cohort terrible at negotiating. Yep. It's no real surprise that coders are mostly men with poor social skills, while HR is mostly women with good ones, most of whom those men find attractive. Classic Valley symbiosis.

I think that is just poor stereotyping. Most of the software developers I've worked with in my career have had very good social skills, those that didn't, were poor developers as well... So are they bad negotiators because of they lack negotiating ability, or actual ability? Is there data on the social skills of IT, HR, Gender breakdown etc... Perhaps what you are refering to is a U.S (?) phenomenon?

>> those that didn't, were poor developers as well...

The fact that people with good social skills convinced you that they were good developers proves the comment made by the parent poster.

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