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The Birth and Death of JavaScript [video]

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Re: The Birth and Death of JavaScript [video]

#61
The reason why metal doesn't exist now is because you can't turn the memory protection stuff off in modern CPU's.

For some weird reason (I'm not an OS/CPU developer) switching to long mode on an x86 cpu also turns on the mmu stuff. You just can't have one without the other.

There's a whole bunch of research done on VM software managed operating systems, back when the VM's started becoming really good. Microsoft's Singularity OS was the hippest I think.[0]

Perhaps that ARM cpu's don't have this restriction, and we will benefit from ARM's upmarch sometime?

[0] http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/singularity/

Re: The Birth and Death of JavaScript [video]

#63
post #60
post #9

nice nice,ultimatly languages dont die,unless they are closed source and used for a single purpose ( AS3 ). In 2035,people will still be writing Javascript. I wonder what the language will look like though. Will it get type hinting like PHP? or type coercion? will it enforce strict encapsulation and message passing like Ruby ? will I be able to create adhoc functions just by implementing call/apply on an object? or s…

AS3 is not dead, and it is now open source

source?

Re: The Birth and Death of JavaScript [video]

#65
First, I very much love the material of the talk, and the idea of Metal. It's fascinating, really makes me think about the future.

However, I also want to rave a bit about his presentation in general! That was very nicely delivered, for many reasons. His commitment to the story, of programming from the perspective in 2035, was excellent and in many cases subtle. His deadpan delivery really added to the humor; the fact that he didn't even smile during any of the moments when the audience was laughing just made it all the more engaging.

Fantastic talk, I totally loved it!

Re: The Birth and Death of JavaScript [video]

#66

I guess this is in a way a response to Bret Victor's "The Future of Programming"? https://vimeo.com/71278954

It is in a sense. I had an early form of the idea that became this talk in the spring or early summer of 2013. Bret's talk (which I loved!) was released shortly after. That made me think "I have to do this future talk now in case the past/future conceit gets beaten into the ground."

Re: The Birth and Death of JavaScript [video]

#67
post #52

He says several times that JavaScript succeeded in spite of being a bad language because it was the only choice. How come we're not all writing Java applets or Flash apps?

Well, about ten or fifteen years ago, "we all were" would have been the answer. Except that back then, there were multiple choices -- plug-ins meant you could choose Java, or Flash, or ActiveX (Visual Basic 6, anyone?), or VRML for that matter. The number of security issues that plug-ins have had in the last two decades makes most of them non-starters nowadays, although there are still plenty of sites that use them e…

Also, apparently internet banking and ecommerce in South Korea relies heavily on ActiveX

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/due-to-secu...

Re: The Birth and Death of JavaScript [video]

#69
post #61

The reason why metal doesn't exist now is because you can't turn the memory protection stuff off in modern CPU's. For some weird reason (I'm not an OS/CPU developer) switching to long mode on an x86 cpu also turns on the mmu stuff. You just can't have one without the other. There's a whole bunch of research done on VM software managed operating systems, back when the VM's started becoming really good. Microsoft's Sin…

I didn't want to go into this level of detail in the talk, but... I think you still want the MMU enabled, just not used for process isolation. With virtual memory totally disabled, a 1 GB malloc takes 1 GB physical memory even if it's not touched, you can't have swap at all, memory fragmentation kills you dead, etc. It still has a lot of utility outside of isolation.

I don't have a good sense of how the performance cost of hardware isolation breaks down into {virtual memory enabled,TLB thrashing,protection ring switching}. That's one of the reasons that I reduced the speed-up from "25-33%" in the MSR paper down to 20% in METAL. Maybe the speed-up would be less than that if virtual memory were still enabled.

Unfortunately, that distinction may have been blurred in the talk. That is, I may have implied that METAL would turn the MMU off entirely. If so, it was an oversight. I've done the talk end-to-end at least fifty times, which is how I smooth my execution out. Occasionally it can "smooth" the ideas out a bit too, leading to small inaccuracies. It's sort of like playing the telephone game with yourself (which is a very strange experience).

The MSR paper that I quote came from the Singularity team, so your reference is right on. Reading "Deconstructing Process Isolation" in fall of 2012 was probably the germ of the core narrative of the talk.

Re: The Birth and Death of JavaScript [video]

#70
post #33

> xs = ['10', '10', '10'] > xs.map(parseInt) [10, NaN, 2] Javascript is beautiful.

Just like with any language, as long as you read the docs of the stuff you use, you don't get this problem (you might get others with automatic type conversion and missing arguments like the speaker says, but not this )... this is just stupid. Try this: int subtract(int b, int a) { return a - b; } int test = subtract(5, 3); // != 2, just read the damn docs Oh, C sucks now ! The talk is quite fun and interesting to wa…

By "this problem" do you mean "the this problem"?

And by "this is just stupid" do you mean "this === just stupid"?

If you think that's bad, you should see this!

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