The Developer is Dead, Long Live the Developer

Post by venomsnake » Thu, Apr 17, 2014, 10:37 PM UTC

festivusr wrote: post #16

venomsnake wrote: post #7

The developers should know how to do ops. And vice versa. We are moving into weird heterogeneous bugs territory. A lot of stuff that has wasted my time last year was caused by interaction of technology stacks and not by pure logical errors. Or error localized in even one package. I had problem with premature socket close on the response with just the wrong setup for all of nginx, haproxy, slim and php 5.4 ... lets pu…

The ops people you work with are also developers? That sounds great but has never been the case at anywhere I've been.

They are not developers - they have no rights to write commit and promote code but they are good enough at reading it to not be helpless when something breaks down and they need to take a peek what has changed recently in the codebase and stuff like that.

I on the other hand have no admin rights (only read access) but I know enough of out network and ops structure to be able to make an educated guess when something is behaving strange.

So if it hits the fan they could probably patch an emergency bug and I could fire up some VM instance. It is not about wearing a lot of hats, but being able quickly to put on a new one if needed.

Post by mfisher87 » Fri, Apr 18, 2014, 2:14 PM UTC

agentultra wrote: post #21

mfisher87 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's what the author is arguing for. More like, "You build it, you run it" (quote via article). Instead of handing your code off to someone else to be 100% responsible for testing, for release, for production support, the author argues that it is better to have developers share responsibility in those roles. It's very similar to what I'm doing now. We don't hand off code to be installed, we give a rel…

Perhaps it's that funny definition of "devops" blurring the lines. I think it's perfectly reasonable for a developer to be aware of excessive memory fragmentation, leaking FD's, and anything else related to the process their program directs. It's well within my domain to debug such issues. However the "devops" role is also pushing responsibility for configuring firewalls, LDAP ACLs, securing the OS, managing init dae…

>It's not reasonable to suggest that everyone be familiar with the implementation of a simulated-annealing algorithm in the continuous-domain constraint search solver. [...] we're arguing that it's perfectly acceptable for that developer to be familiar with the intricacies of managing a data center of compute clusters? I don't know about you but I don't have an infinite amount of time on this Earth to take on such responsibilities.

No one is arguing for that, as I said. Where in the article do you see something like that? No mention of firewalls, data centers, developers doing their own server administration. This seems to be a more important takeaway from the article:

> Ultimately, DevOps is about empathy, with everyone on your team and with your customers.

No one is suggesting "everyone does everything" at all... you're sort of creating an argument here.

Re: The Developer is Dead, Long Live the Developer

Re: The Developer is Dead, Long Live the Developer