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From one photo, we know there are at least one hundred billion galaxies

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Re: From one photo, we know there are at least one hundred billion galaxies

#31

Post by bockris »

jacquesm wrote: post #18
mcantor wrote: post #8

Can you imagine being there when these images were first compiled and revealed? I would have gaped in disbelief, and then wept. From a minuscule patch of nothingness, bottomless infinity has been glimpsed. It's unfathomable. And it's out there, right now, part of our existence. How awesome and thrilling.

How humbling. And this is where religion gets it all wrong, the claim that all that was made just for us is so totally off the wall that I find it hard to believe that religion is changing so slowly to reflect the reality as we know it today.

I had an identical reaction when I found this website.

http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/

Re: From one photo, we know there are at least one hundred billion galaxies

#32

Post by jacquesm »

robg wrote: post #30
jacquesm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most western religions, judeo-christians + splinter groups up front. Their continued over simplification of the cosmic truths that are literally staring us in the face make it difficult to engage in reasoned debate.

Have you read Thomas Aquinas in the original? Or even Maimonides? There's a reason some minds stand the test of centuries, if not more. Those on the TV today are mere flickering quarks. Those whose names we still utter are galaxies of thought. I think it's a mistake to dismiss, out-of-hand, the thoughts that lie at the foundations of Western civilization. Religious organizations have always been run by humans. Yet th…

Excellent point Robg, I take that back.

Thanks for the insight, seriously.

What I think is great about religion is its ability to inspire people to go over and beyond their normal view of the world and to use it as scaffolding to reach higher planes of thought or art. I think JS Bach is a great example of that, but there are plenty more, in just about all fields of human endeavor, including science.

What gets me though is the bigotry and the use of fear and other cheap and demeaning tactics that use religion as a control instrument for large numbers of people.

This is where I have a real problem with religion, my feelings are that if everybody would stop for a little while to pander to the humans that claim to have a wire to their variation on the 'invisible man in the sky' that we might be able to concentrate on the real problems at hand.

Imagine the amazing stuff that could happen if a truly enlightened man became a religious leader (say, a Pope in the spirit of the Dalai Lama or something to that effect).

A lot of damage has been done, now it is time to go fix things, and fix them without being shackled down by the past, but carrying along the lessons from that past.

Re: From one photo, we know there are at least one hundred billion galaxies

#33

Post by edw519 »

jacquesm wrote: post #29
edw519 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is where religion gets it all wrong, Not my experience. The biggest thing that I have learned from my religion is that there is that in the universe that is mysterious, bigger than us, and incomprehensible. Hubble Deep Space provides excellent supporting data.

Interesting, what religion would that be ? That sounds like a worthwhile variation on the theme.

I would prefer not to derail this great thread about Hubble with further talk about religion. I'll be happy to share my thoughts if you contact me off-line.

Re: From one photo, we know there are at least one hundred billion galaxies

#34

Post by jacquesm »

bockris wrote: post #31
jacquesm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How humbling. And this is where religion gets it all wrong, the claim that all that was made just for us is so totally off the wall that I find it hard to believe that religion is changing so slowly to reflect the reality as we know it today.

I had an identical reaction when I found this website. http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/

something similar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2cmlhfdxuY

Re: From one photo, we know there are at least one hundred billion galaxies

#35

Post by polos »

jacquesm wrote: post #18
mcantor wrote: post #8

Can you imagine being there when these images were first compiled and revealed? I would have gaped in disbelief, and then wept. From a minuscule patch of nothingness, bottomless infinity has been glimpsed. It's unfathomable. And it's out there, right now, part of our existence. How awesome and thrilling.

How humbling. And this is where religion gets it all wrong, the claim that all that was made just for us is so totally off the wall that I find it hard to believe that religion is changing so slowly to reflect the reality as we know it today.

Religion does not say "made just for us"; religion says that the Universe is one of the examples of the infinite creativity of the Creator.

BTW, new stars are 'born' continuously.

Re: From one photo, we know there are at least one hundred billion galaxies

#36

Post by Leon »

fuzzmeister wrote: post #11

After thinking about it for quite some time, I've decided that, in my opinion, the Hubble Ultra Deep Field is the most important picture ever taken. While many argue that non-repeatable and awe-inspiring human events should be the root of "the most important picture," the HUDF shows that no matter how significant those pictures might seem, they are absolutely nothing on the scale of what really exists out there. A gr…

What about the WMAP? It studied the CMB radiation and gives us evidence of the big bang, a flat euclidean universe, the amount and type of matter in the universe, and even more!

Sure, the ultra deep field is cool, but in importance the WMAP picture is waaay more important.

Re: From one photo, we know there are at least one hundred billion galaxies

#37

Post by pbhjpbhj »

jacquesm wrote: post #32
robg wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read Thomas Aquinas in the original? Or even Maimonides? There's a reason some minds stand the test of centuries, if not more. Those on the TV today are mere flickering quarks. Those whose names we still utter are galaxies of thought. I think it's a mistake to dismiss, out-of-hand, the thoughts that lie at the foundations of Western civilization. Religious organizations have always been run by humans. Yet th…

Excellent point Robg, I take that back. Thanks for the insight, seriously. What I think is great about religion is its ability to inspire people to go over and beyond their normal view of the world and to use it as scaffolding to reach higher planes of thought or art. I think JS Bach is a great example of that, but there are plenty more, in just about all fields of human endeavor, including science. What gets me thou…

"a truly enlightened man", IMO Jesus was that man (and more) - but I know what response that will get here.

The point is not that a great leader come forward but that we choose to follow and imitate the greatest goodness, wisdom, kindness, self-control and love that we encounter.

Re: From one photo, we know there are at least one hundred billion galaxies

#38

Post by chrischen »

gjm11 wrote: post #26
mbenjaminsmith wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Imagine gathering the hundreds of people that worked on the Apollo missions and fitting them in the room that housed the project's main computers. They might all fit. Then tell them before most of them were dead they would be able to put all of those computers in their pocket. Ok. Now imagine that we don't kill ourselves for the next thousand years. What are going to be able to do? What about ten thousand? I…

You're free to state it, of course. But 1. While indeed we're likely not alone, I see no reason to think that the density of life in the universe is anything like as big as the density of life on earth. 2. What's technologically possible is clearly limited by the laws of nature, whatever they turn out to be. It could very well be that there simply is no way to travel faster than light, for instance. 3. I would be int…

Travelling faster than light may not be the only way of getting around though.

Re: From one photo, we know there are at least one hundred billion galaxies

#39

Post by pbhjpbhj »

FiveFiftyOne wrote: post #28
jacquesm wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, ok, I was thinking along the lines of Richard Feynman, Carl Sagan or Stephen Hawking... Terry Pratchett is entertaining but he can't hold a candle to Douglas Adams. It's more like he's found a formula and markets the hell out of it (he's a good businessman though!).

Terry Pratchett is correct. The man has created an imaginary universe, interlinked and interweaved across dozens of stories. His definitions on quantum and time are interesting and amusing at the same time. His frustration at the limitation of language with regard to these subjects too: "It is very difficult to explain quantum in a language designed to tell other monkeys where the ripe fruit is". Apologies for the OT…

If our language (I'm thinking English, I'd be interested to hear of variations) is for telling people where the ripe fruit is, how come we don't have specific [common] words for so-unripe-it-will-give-you-indigestion, not-quite-ripe, ripe-enough, still-needs-to-ripen and so-ripe-you-can't-pick-it - they'd be very useful in foraging situations?

I guess /auf Deutsch/ they'd all just be compound words?

Re: From one photo, we know there are at least one hundred billion galaxies

#40

Post by MikeCapone »

robg wrote: post #30
jacquesm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most western religions, judeo-christians + splinter groups up front. Their continued over simplification of the cosmic truths that are literally staring us in the face make it difficult to engage in reasoned debate.

Have you read Thomas Aquinas in the original? Or even Maimonides? There's a reason some minds stand the test of centuries, if not more. Those on the TV today are mere flickering quarks. Those whose names we still utter are galaxies of thought. I think it's a mistake to dismiss, out-of-hand, the thoughts that lie at the foundations of Western civilization. Religious organizations have always been run by humans. Yet th…

A lot of very smart people believed in the supernatural (especially before Darwin).

That doesn't mean that there is any credible evidence to support the existence of the supernatural, though.

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