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Quantum Entanglement Drives the Arrow of Time

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Re: Quantum Entanglement Drives the Arrow of Time

#101
post #96

Does it seem to anyone else that quantum entanglement and decoherance is the universes way of doing the least amount of computation possible? Like the universe is lazily loaded?

Can you give a concrete example of what you mean?

Sure (as far as my layman's understanding of quantum physics goes).

So, you have independent physical system (say, a photon). Before it interacts it exists in quantum superposition. It has the potential to exist in any possible configuration and, in fact, seems to exist in all of them simultaneously. Almost like a variable of a certain type but this type is kind of special in that some possible values are more likely than others.

You can combine these 'probability types' systems with others and get useful information out of them in aggregate (example, wave interference patterns) very easily. They seem very well suited to treating them in aggregate in bulk calculations -- IOW, it is computationally cheaper to keep them in this state until the individual values of the variables must be extracted and used. Then the universe accesses the actual value of that individual variable that, so far, has only been needed as part of the aggregate if at all, through an interaction. Then, and only then, is the variable loaded with a concrete value chosen from its probability type through entanglement and it becomes useless as part of these aggregate calculations since it must be treated as an individual entity with a value.

(I am ignorant of quantum physics outside of pop science articles, so if I have something egregiously wrong, please let me know).

Let's say you've made a video game. It is a MMO set in the Stone Age based around massive battles with slings and swords. There are hundreds of thousands of players and computer controlled NPCs in the same world simultaneously. To conserve server resources many calculations are done on the client computer. The clients cannot be expected to do a full calculation for every projectile in the world so there is an algorithm that chooses to load state of only those players that are near enough to actually act on that particular client.

Let's say a player has come onto the battlefield out of range of everyone else but has a scrying spell that allows that player to see an overhead map showing dots of troop formations. This is the aggregate calculation. This player doesn't need to know every other player's full state, just their general density (because he only gets a dot for every ten or so players). As this player moves toward the battle, some NPC comes in range. Suddenly the player needs to know much more state so it is chosen from the possible values and now that NPC must act in a certain way -- only have certain state changes, because only certain transitions make sense now that he's been interacted with. The NPC can't go from fully armored with a spear to in a loin cloth with a sling, for example. And any NPCs in range of that NPC must also de-cohere into a fully defined state and so on. They all become entangled.

Does any of that make any sense whatsoever? I know these are imperfect analogies.

Re: Quantum Entanglement Drives the Arrow of Time

#102
I wonder how much knowledge is lost because the research isn't "popular". What is the opportunity cost of so many researchers doing string theory research, not necessarily because they believe they'll find a breakthrough (obviously, this doesn't describe most), but because they won't be able to get published or find a research position if they aren't doing the "in" thing.

This doesn't just apply to physics, but the history of physics makes it easy to find case studies in this.

Re: Quantum Entanglement Drives the Arrow of Time

#103
post #64

This is nonsense; entropy and the arrow of time are essentially a many-body effects and require no quantum effects to occur. A simplest way to see it is to make small simulation of a, say, 1000 gas particles with only classical bouncing in a one side of a box partitioned in half with a barrier, obviously with a time-reversible numerical method -- after the removal of the barrier the gas will evenly spread over the bo…

This implies that atoms behave like little billiard balls, but nearly a century of quantum physics has shown us very clearly that belief is false. Unless you are looking at it, atoms exist as their wave function (and recent experiments have shown that a collapse won't occur while you are watching so e.g. a radioactive isotope will not decay while being observed), so any description of behavior needs to use their wave function to describe it.

Re: Quantum Entanglement Drives the Arrow of Time

#104

> After some time, most of the particles in the coffee are correlated with air particles; the coffee has reached thermal equilibrium. No doubt this is some way oversimplified explanation, but it still makes no sense. Say I have hot coffee and lukewarm coffee. The lukewarm coffee will equilibrate faster. Does it interact with the air faster? What if I bring in coffee that's the same temperature as the air, so that it'…

> Say I have hot coffee and lukewarm coffee. The lukewarm coffee will equilibrate faster.

It won't (all else being equal). :) Because of Newton's law of cooling, hot coffee will cool down faster (precisely, the rate of change of temperature of a solid body is proportional to the difference in temperature between the body and the environment).

Re: Quantum Entanglement Drives the Arrow of Time

#105
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yet, once the particles are spread, if you somehow reverse their velocities, they will concentrate back to one half. Yet we can never do that. Why do you think? The obvious answer in a classical universe is that we simply don't know the velocity and position of each particle, so we can't just reverse them. To pull such a feat, we'd have to be incredibly lucky, as in "winning every lottery for a century" lucky. With e…

> The obvious answer in a classical universe is ... Since there is an obvious answer in classical physics, it's a bit disingenuous to claim that this solves a long-standing problem in classical physics, no? > With entanglement and de-coherence however, such reversal becomes impossible even in principle [...] So it does look like a better candidate for the arrow of time. That would be true if you could demonstrate by…

Isn't that exactly what the paper this article references is stating a proof of: that the reforming is physically impossible?

Re: Quantum Entanglement Drives the Arrow of Time

#106
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give a concrete example of what you mean?

Sure (as far as my layman's understanding of quantum physics goes). So, you have independent physical system (say, a photon). Before it interacts it exists in quantum superposition. It has the potential to exist in any possible configuration and, in fact, seems to exist in all of them simultaneously. Almost like a variable of a certain type but this type is kind of special in that some possible values are more likely…

That seems like a pretty reasonable analogy. It raises the question, though: why is the "player character" so important in the real world?

Re: Quantum Entanglement Drives the Arrow of Time

#107
A lot of people in this thread are questioning how this adds any new information about time or how it is different/better than a classical explanation of systems (coffee cup reaching equilibrium based on thermodynamic laws).

One way that this result makes sense to me is by considering the properties of light speed and "spooky action at a distance." Particles become entangled with one another at the speed of light -- photons or fields carrying the information between the two. Looking at this from the perspective of light speed, there has been an instantaneous change between the two particles. State A has led directly to a more complicated, entangled State B. Still looking at this from light speed, there is no time between the transition from one state to the next and from that one to the next and so on. The universe has already worked itself out from the initial disentangled state to all the states that are increasingly more entangled.

Thanks to Einstein, we know that all objects try to move at light speed, but that the more massive they are the slower they become. Because we are massive objects, we don't experience time instantaneously like the photons do. We see the propagation of entanglement and see the state transitions. Our massiveness has given rise to a direction of time, the order that we understand the states of the universe to be proceeding in. Unlike light, we have to experience all the intermediate states in the order of less entangled -> more entangled. Thus an arrow of time.

This is already subtly bundled up in the classical explanations. Coffee cools off because it reaches equilibrium. Classical physics says this is because the particles in the coffee are hotter than the surrounding air, so it is more likely for those particles to break free of the coffee, thereby reducing its average kinetic motion. Consider though how those particles are interacting with one another. They don't just "know" the direction they're supposed to go, they bump into each other's fields and communicate at light speed. Each particle informs the next and as they become more entangled and learn more about where they are, they progress from state to state.

Re: Quantum Entanglement Drives the Arrow of Time

#109
post #32
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without reading the paper or watching the video. > 1) What does it mean that entangled particles are supercorrelated? How can S(A|B) = 2 or -1? The density matrix does not have the same properties of a joint probability distribution, so quantum entropy doesn't really have the same properties of classical entropy. [1] > 2) The formula for Von Neumann entropy is S = -Tr(p log(p)), where p is the density matrix. How do…

Good answers. Just a small comment: quantum entropy is a generalization of classical entropy. In particular, if A and B are classically correlated, then S(A|B) has all the properties of a classical entropy (Shannon's, in this case), for instance, it is non-negative.

What does classically correlated mean? Is it different than quantum correlated? (Is this analogous to the difference between pure and mixed states?)

Re: Quantum Entanglement Drives the Arrow of Time

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure (as far as my layman's understanding of quantum physics goes). So, you have independent physical system (say, a photon). Before it interacts it exists in quantum superposition. It has the potential to exist in any possible configuration and, in fact, seems to exist in all of them simultaneously. Almost like a variable of a certain type but this type is kind of special in that some possible values are more likely…

That seems like a pretty reasonable analogy. It raises the question, though: why is the "player character" so important in the real world?

I was thinking, initially, that the 'player characters' where just previously entangled systems. Anytime anything that has previously decohered interacts with a system still in quantum superposition a new 'player character' would be created.

But that seems like an exponential process so it immediately makes me ask: Why isn't everything entangled at this point? Is there that much in the universe still in superposition that it just hasn't happened or can something that has previously been entangled become un-entagled and re-enter a state of superposition?

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