I've only worked with one bootcamp grad, but I've done a fair bit of hiring over the past 15 years, including a number of junior folks. My main concern with bootcamp grads is that it is not much of a positive signal. My (admittedly biased and unscientific) sense is that you really have to be hopeless to flunk out. The training period is so short that the assignments are necessarily small and limited in scope, so they…
they are still a tiny bit too exclusive to become this generation's MCSE, but they are getting there.
I hired a Dev Bootcamp grad back in 2012. We hired him into our apprenticeship program, which leveled him up to our junior developer standards within 6 months. I was really impressed with the combination of soft skills and software skills he came with. I was so impressed from this experience with Dev Bootcamp that I quit my job, joined Dev Bootcamp, and launched Dev Bootcamp in Chicago.
I will say that where I work we appear to have managed to get on a list of "startups to send your resume to" by one or two of these bootcamp shops, and the resumes tend to be severely underwhelming. Here are some of the things that have been negatively affecting my reaction to them (I share in hopes this is useful, not to bash bootcamps or folks that attend them!): ONLY A GITHUB PROFILE It seems pretty clear that the…
"Related to the over-emphasis on github profiles is the exclusion of anything not-code related."
Most people hiring wouldn't and it's pretty common to remove things from one's resume that are unrelated to the position applied for. It's expected, actually, as most people who are hiring don't want to waste time trying to sort qualifications from chuff.
We interviewed a few and will probably never consider resumes from bootcamp grads again. Calling them Jr. isn't even fair towards CS grads that are actual Jr. level
What grinds my gears is recently coming across some bootcamp grad's profiles that call themselves Software Engineers and have yet to get a job as an engineer. This is like saying you are a racecar driver and only took a class at the karting track.
I can appreciate the concern for eroding your title. I question the line where you decide who is an SE and who isn't.
I'm a recent cs grad who's dabbled in lots of c, java and python as my main languages. I'm getting into node and mongoDB. I drank the linux koolaid early so it pains me that I'm day jobbing as a jr dev building institutional investment tools, and I've got a fledging startup (Loodo.co).
We interviewed a few and will probably never consider resumes from bootcamp grads again. Calling them Jr. isn't even fair towards CS grads that are actual Jr. level
What grinds my gears is recently coming across some bootcamp grad's profiles that call themselves Software Engineers and have yet to get a job as an engineer. This is like saying you are a racecar driver and only took a class at the karting track.
I can appreciate the concern for eroding your title. I question the line where you decide who is an SE and who isn't.
I'm a recent cs grad who's dabbled in lots of c, java and python as my main languages. I'm getting into node and mongoDB. I drank the linux koolaid early so it pains me that I'm day jobbing as a jr dev building institutional investment tools, and I've got a fledging startup (Loodo.co).
I will say that where I work we appear to have managed to get on a list of "startups to send your resume to" by one or two of these bootcamp shops, and the resumes tend to be severely underwhelming. Here are some of the things that have been negatively affecting my reaction to them (I share in hopes this is useful, not to bash bootcamps or folks that attend them!): ONLY A GITHUB PROFILE It seems pretty clear that the…
"Related to the over-emphasis on github profiles is the exclusion of anything not-code related." Most people hiring wouldn't and it's pretty common to remove things from one's resume that are unrelated to the position applied for. It's expected, actually, as most people who are hiring don't want to waste time trying to sort qualifications from chuff.
Well I'd kindly submit that those people are completely fucking it up. I also doubt you're correct about "most".
Again, I'm hiring you holistically.. not your ability to program. I think especially if your ability to program is a new facet to your otherwise rich and interesting existence then you're hurting yourself not sharing more.
I will say that where I work we appear to have managed to get on a list of "startups to send your resume to" by one or two of these bootcamp shops, and the resumes tend to be severely underwhelming. Here are some of the things that have been negatively affecting my reaction to them (I share in hopes this is useful, not to bash bootcamps or folks that attend them!): ONLY A GITHUB PROFILE It seems pretty clear that the…
Great advice! I am on the non-technical side of our team but I work closely with the devs and have recently attended a career fair at a university and was faced with the same problem. Grads came to us wanting to work with us but with little to no research on the company and the biggest thing to me was no reason as to why they wanted to work with us. Something I find for new grads, from any type of program, are lackin…
That's a good point, I've seen that with new grads. I do think if you're actively seeking out junior folks via career fairs etc then you've kind of reversed the funnel and it makes sense that people might scatter-shot apply without knowing lots about you and are hoping to get interviews and find out who they're interested in at that point. That's probably totally reasonable, I guess it makes sense to adjust your process and expectations to accommodate if new-grad hiring is a big focus.
What grinds my gears is recently coming across some bootcamp grad's profiles that call themselves Software Engineers and have yet to get a job as an engineer. This is like saying you are a racecar driver and only took a class at the karting track.
I can appreciate the concern for eroding your title. I question the line where you decide who is an SE and who isn't. I'm a recent cs grad who's dabbled in lots of c, java and python as my main languages. I'm getting into node and mongoDB. I drank the linux koolaid early so it pains me that I'm day jobbing as a jr dev building institutional investment tools, and I've got a fledging startup (Loodo.co). Am I an SE yet?
I guess my "line" would have to be where you've built a software product professionally. Whether it be your company or an outside company. My argument is coming from the bootcamp grads that don't call themselves JR or Entry level.
"Related to the over-emphasis on github profiles is the exclusion of anything not-code related." Most people hiring wouldn't and it's pretty common to remove things from one's resume that are unrelated to the position applied for. It's expected, actually, as most people who are hiring don't want to waste time trying to sort qualifications from chuff.
Well I'd kindly submit that those people are completely fucking it up. I also doubt you're correct about "most". Again, I'm hiring you holistically.. not your ability to program. I think especially if your ability to program is a new facet to your otherwise rich and interesting existence then you're hurting yourself not sharing more.
Unfortunately, what you want goes against every single source of resume advice I've ever read. In fact, I'd like to see a source that doesn't advise against it. It's likely that the candidates are reading the same material and thinking that this is what employers want. IMO, the advice is spot on. The only things under consideration in a hiring decision should be things that directly reflect one's skills as pertaining to the job. If you're evaluating based on other criteria, it may go as far as being illegal (discrimination). Perhaps you find ten years worth of trucking experience relevant for a coding job. Most employers don't and won't waste the time reading a long resume, especially if it's irrelevant. It's likely it won't even get past the initial screening phase.
"We're asked to work upwards of 100 hours a week." It doesn't seem like one could learn effectively while fighting physical and mental exhaustion. Asking people to work 100 hours a week sounds more like an indoctrination program to make them believe that the long work hours they're likely to find in startups are "normal". Or maybe a way for the bootcamp to market their grads to startups: "Our graduates survived 100-h…
It's driven by the amount of material that students need to ingest over a 3 month period. As sciguy noted, this is totally normal in academic settings as well. For instance, OS (15-410) at CMU requires 70+ hours a week. That's a single class. These are of course completely different animals, but the scale of learning is similar. Getting a solid intuition for not only web applications but programming fundamentals when…
Just because CMU does it too doesn't mean that it's reasonable. Students who are stressed out and sleep-deprived aren't going to be learning effectively - there's lots of research that indicates that sleep is necessary for forming long-term memories.[1] Better to split the course into two semesters.