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Raising a moral child

nytimes.com

51–60 of 159 posts

Re: Raising a moral child

#51
post #17

Man, I just learned to compliment actions rather than talent, and now I have to do it the other way around. I get why, though. Moral actions are choices. Being smart isn't. If you praise a kid for being smart, he won't be able to choose to be smart. Instead, he'll assume he's smart and won't have to work so hard. I suppose praising an innate tendency to work hard might be more effective.

Having worked with kids a lot (long term, I would work with the same kids for 4-5 years and get a long term image of their development), it really seems to me like praising a kid for being smart is going to be better than praising a kid for working hard.

This sort of gets coupled with the idea of 'work smarter, not harder.' When a child is praised more substantially for trying hard, you get things like staying up all night studying for a test. When you emphasize being smart and not needing to study, the child is more likely to push themselves such that they can land good grades without needing to study.

And this usually manifests as greater attentiveness in class, greater emphasis on figuring out exactly what's going to be on the test, etc. But you also see behaviours like emphasizing getting the right teachers.

And the same thing applies to sports. If you emphasize effort, you might get a child practicing repeatedly something that they are already good at. When they are really bad at passing, you get thought patterns like 'at least I'm trying.' When you emphasize being good, the child is more devastated by the idea that they are bad at passing, and they focus their energy on being not bad.

The point is that things like being 'smart' and being 'good' are things that you can actually learn, and a lot times, working on what's important is much more important than the overall volume of effort.

Re: Raising a moral child

#52
post #4

The experiments this op-ed describes are really neat. I especially like the one that demonstrates the importance of "practice what you preach." Here's another cool experiment related to social/moral development, which you can perform on your own kid: Have two grown-up friends each show your baby a toy. The first friend should offer the toy to your kid but then retract the offer and keep the toy to himself. The second…

[deleted]

Re: Raising a moral child

#53
post #51
post #17

Man, I just learned to compliment actions rather than talent, and now I have to do it the other way around. I get why, though. Moral actions are choices. Being smart isn't. If you praise a kid for being smart, he won't be able to choose to be smart. Instead, he'll assume he's smart and won't have to work so hard. I suppose praising an innate tendency to work hard might be more effective.

Having worked with kids a lot (long term, I would work with the same kids for 4-5 years and get a long term image of their development), it really seems to me like praising a kid for being smart is going to be better than praising a kid for working hard. This sort of gets coupled with the idea of 'work smarter, not harder.' When a child is praised more substantially for trying hard, you get things like staying up all…

I'm sorry, but what you are saying just does not match my personal experience, nor what the empirical studies suggest, which is the exact opposite:

> When a child is praised more substantially for trying hard, you get things like staying up all night studying for a test. When you emphasize being smart and not needing to study, the child is more likely to push themselves such that they can land good grades without needing to study.

The way I've heard and personally experienced it, kids who get praised for being smart are more likely to procrastinate ("eh, I already get that anyway"), then try to cram everything in in the last minute.

> And the same thing applies to sports. If you emphasize effort, you might get a child practicing repeatedly something that they are already good at.

Similarly, studies suggest that by praising talent, you teach kids to stick to what they are good at immediately ("that's what I'm talented at"), instead of putting in the effort to learn stuff that they don't get immediately.

EDIT: Perhaps it depends on whether you praise below-average, average and smarter-than-average kids?

Re: Raising a moral child

#54
post #17

Man, I just learned to compliment actions rather than talent, and now I have to do it the other way around. I get why, though. Moral actions are choices. Being smart isn't. If you praise a kid for being smart, he won't be able to choose to be smart. Instead, he'll assume he's smart and won't have to work so hard. I suppose praising an innate tendency to work hard might be more effective.

My fiance made the point that praising a child for his hard work (rather than smarts) is actually praising his tenacity -- a moral virtue.

Re: Raising a moral child

#56
post #19
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, so the author's advice boils down to: (1) If your child does something good, DO tell them that they are showing traits of a person who does good things (praise character). DON'T let them think that they're merely a person who did a good thing (praise behavior). (2) If your child does something bad, DON'T tell them that they are showing traits of a person who does bad things (shame). DO tell them that they did a…

This is a good breakdown, but to address sharemywin's question: When you tell your child "don't be a cheater," the focus is on character. You don't want them to do things that a person with bad character does. When your child cheats, on the other hand, you say, "I'm disappointed, because I know you have a good character, but your action didn't reflect that." So, the focus is on the bad action, rather than the charact…

Yeah, it's a matter of past-vs-future. Identity is important, but when a child makes a mistake you don't want to "lock it in" by confirming it as an unalterable quality.

Re: Raising a moral child

#57

Modern parenting literature seems largely to be about manipulating your child into being who and what you want them to be. 'Tricks' and 'techniques' abound, and every other article is about 'teaching' your child to achieve/empathize/compete. You know what works extra- extra- well? Be the kind of person you want your kids to be. Treat them like a decent person treats other decent people and that's the behavior they wi…

Please point to the studies that show it works extra extra well.

Re: Raising a moral child

#59
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who would have thought that 21-month-olds are predisposed to Kantian ethics?

Philosophy: how does it work? Hint: its true even if babies haven't figured it out yet.

Many contradictory views are all "philosophy." It's rarely obvious which view is true, if any are.

Re: Raising a moral child

#60
post #46

Modern parenting literature seems largely to be about manipulating your child into being who and what you want them to be. 'Tricks' and 'techniques' abound, and every other article is about 'teaching' your child to achieve/empathize/compete. You know what works extra- extra- well? Be the kind of person you want your kids to be. Treat them like a decent person treats other decent people and that's the behavior they wi…

I felt a lot of this when I was growing up. A lot of times I could feel my dad trying to mold me into the best type of person possible. Not that it was unwelcome or that he was doing the wrong thing, but in a lot of ways it felt weird and unnatural. Sometimes it felt like he was a lot more guarded around me, like he couldn't be who he really was because he was trying to set the best possible example and be the best p…

Maybe this isn't about morality but about wishing your Dad had been closer/more intimate rather than more distant
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