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Loomio – Crowdfunding a better way to make decisions together

loomio.org

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Re: Loomio – Crowdfunding a better way to make decisions together

#31

Post by User8712 »

loomio wrote: post #27
User8712 wrote: post #23

Crowdfunding web applications? Is this becoming a new thing? Send us 100k, and we'll finish our beta application, and give you rewards, like your name in the code, or for $500, you can have a coffee with us on video chat. Or for $25,000, fly yourself here, and we'll give you a tour of the city and cook you dinner. Does this not sound crazy to anyone else? If they raise an extra $150k, they'll develop extras, such as…

Hi, thanks for your comments. We launched a functional and useful alpha in early 2012, followed by a public beta in 2013, which was open to everyone to use. 15,000 people have already signed up and people are using the software right now all over the world. You're welcome to use the Loomio protoype right now, either the hosted version in the cloud, or install your own instance. Set up a Loomio prototype group here: h…

Why would you say unable to launch isn't a fair assessment? If you had a functional and useful alpha over 2 years ago, and 1.0 isn't released, I'd say that's spot on. You're going to be in for nearly 3 years, $100k from the crowd, and an unknown amount from your supporters and team before officially launching. 15,000 users on free software is a small number. I'd be worrying the small number isn't because the big launch has happened, but because the concept doesn't have enough appeal. I've launched a few different projects in the past that hit 15,000 users in a week, and the majority of those died within months or a year.

Nonetheless, congratulations on raising $100k from 1,000 users. That shows some dedication from the community, so you must be doing something right. Hopefully I'm wrong on my forecast, and good luck on the project.

Re: Loomio – Crowdfunding a better way to make decisions together

#32

Post by chatman »

User8712 wrote: post #23

Crowdfunding web applications? Is this becoming a new thing? Send us 100k, and we'll finish our beta application, and give you rewards, like your name in the code, or for $500, you can have a coffee with us on video chat. Or for $25,000, fly yourself here, and we'll give you a tour of the city and cook you dinner. Does this not sound crazy to anyone else? If they raise an extra $150k, they'll develop extras, such as…

Totally agree. Want to build a discussion forum? Give it a .io domain, put some text boxes and voting buttons and launch a crowdsourcing campaign. Not saying its not effective, but just something to ponder upon where crowdfunding is headed in general.

Re: Loomio – Crowdfunding a better way to make decisions together

#34

Post by [deleted] »

User8712 wrote: post #23

Crowdfunding web applications? Is this becoming a new thing? Send us 100k, and we'll finish our beta application, and give you rewards, like your name in the code, or for $500, you can have a coffee with us on video chat. Or for $25,000, fly yourself here, and we'll give you a tour of the city and cook you dinner. Does this not sound crazy to anyone else? If they raise an extra $150k, they'll develop extras, such as…

[deleted]

Re: Loomio – Crowdfunding a better way to make decisions together

#35

Post by Democatz »

Instead crowdfunding this Liquid Feedback should be adopted more internationally and any funding should be put into development of LF for better adaption. Loomio is a joke compmared to LF, the guys did not seem to think a lot about the stuff they want to support. It is obvious that the platform can not scale to thousands of people, the boldly advertised example groups are a joke if you take look at it.

Liquid Feedback is serious work. And decision making processes are serious, too. People who think that LF is "too complicated" probably have not realized, that decision making processes in real life are even more complicated.

LF still is not solving all problems. For deep research of problematic decisions there should be a good integration of documentcloud or a similar research tool.

However, LF has realized some good concepts that work for big and very big groups.

Loomio guys should optimize Liquid Feedback and adopt to their needs.

Re: Loomio – Crowdfunding a better way to make decisions together

#36

Post by Theodores »

This concept reminds me of the non-hierarchical decision making by consensus process that groups such as 'Reclaim the Streets' tried to implement a couple of decades ago.

However, 'Reclaim the Streets' never asked anyone for any donations. That made them very different to your typical 'save the world' group where the main point of the org/charity is just that, soliciting donations.

Like many people here I don't quite get what the money is needed for, even though it is spelled out. I also had a look at the github and it looks like things are aeons away from the 'Wordpress 5 minute install'. The Wordpress 5 minute install really is too much technical wizardry for a lot of folk, they need an 'I.T. Expert' (TM) to do it for them. Wordpress offer hosted versions to get around this trifle and I am sure that is the way to go, however, if you are open sourcing the code and expecting people to host their own, being open source is not enough, it has to be reasonably easy to install.

Every man, dog and cat rolls a few Rails apps before their breakfast in The Valley, so it is no big deal. Yet for the people that are just about okay uploading something like Wordpress to their 'FTP server' and setting up a database through some hideous 'cPanel' contraption do matter. These are the people likely to be administrators of a group somewhere that could benefit from your software.

Re: Loomio – Crowdfunding a better way to make decisions together

#37

Post by xerophtye »

robguthrie wrote: post #16
xerophtye wrote: post #14

I really like the platform. It enables people to conduct the decision making in a way that is followed in formal committees, and even the UN. People present options, everyone talks about them, then when it seems that the group is converging towards a solution, you present a proposal. And then everyone votes on it (and not just a yes or no!). So it's pretty cool. I just have one concern, does only the leader present p…

Thanks! Yes anyone can start a discussion and a proposal, but we haven't experienced people just starting proposals without engaging in other ways. People start proposals but if you don't want to participate, you can just let them die. The big idea here is to build shared understanding through discussion before a proposal is suggested, that way the group has a solid foundation on which to create a decision.

I understand the intended usage but I am just a little surprised that people actually follow that. Either way, good work! I am loving it!

Re: Loomio – Crowdfunding a better way to make decisions together

#39

Post by llamataboot »

So excited to see Loomio on the frontpage of Hacker News! I've long dreamed of an effective web app for consensus decision making processes (and even thought about building one) but as a user of Loomio for over a year I can say they've done almost everything right -- even down to having some serious design chops. I'm so excited to see where they will be able to take this with the money they've raised (hit your goal today! woot!) and look forward to introducing more activist organizations, especially those with people in many geographical locations, to Loomio. Great job to all the devs and designers and alpha and beta testers!

For those of you who don't know, consensus decision making is not just a willy-nilly free for all. Over the years it has been refined by groups, it has developed strong points of process that help ensure it actually is a decision making process, not just a discussion that goes in circles or goes nowhere. (including the infamous hand signals that many saw during Occupy). If you are interested in consensus decision making, I highly recommend checking out this classic book.

http://consensus.net/pdf/consensus.pdf

While I don't think formal consensus decision making is the best tool for non-hierarchical decision making i all circumstances, I do think it is quite powerful /when used correctly/. Historically this has required strong facilitation skills and other roles (timekeeper, temperature checker, etc) -- all of which play their part in keeping the process working as designed.

Loomio has created a platform for decentralized non-hierarchical decision making that bakes in some crucial features /to accomplish formal consensus decision making/. All the activists I know that have tried it have been impressed by the dev team's responsiveness and dogfooding (Loomio uses Loomio), and have found the features enable formal consensus decision making in a way that a discussion board or voting polls or similar tools that aren't quite designed for consensus just don't.

Re: Loomio – Crowdfunding a better way to make decisions together

#40

Post by grimtrigger »

llamataboot wrote: post #39

So excited to see Loomio on the frontpage of Hacker News! I've long dreamed of an effective web app for consensus decision making processes (and even thought about building one) but as a user of Loomio for over a year I can say they've done almost everything right -- even down to having some serious design chops. I'm so excited to see where they will be able to take this with the money they've raised (hit your goal t…

What have you been using Loomio for? I still can't say I really get it.
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