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My Ideas, My Boss’s Property

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Re: My Ideas, My Boss’s Property

#111

Post by 6d0debc071 »

wyager wrote: post #67
ISL wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strong work. Not everyone has the will, nor the financial wherewithal, to do such a thing.

>Not everyone has the will... to do such a thing. This may just be crotchety old man talk, but sometimes I wonder if the extremely protective child-rearing (particularly in schools) that seems to be abundant today will make future adults particularly susceptible to this kind of bullying. If you never have to deal with this kind of social stress as a child, how can you possibly deal with it as an adult? Perhaps gettin…

> This may just be crotchety old man talk, but sometimes I wonder if the extremely protective child-rearing (particularly in schools) that seems to be abundant today will make future adults particularly susceptible to this kind of bullying.

I wonder how much of the structure of the school system is bullying, or built around encouraging it.

Vicious unthinking rules applied more for the administration and teacher's benefit than anything else. An environment where you're deprived of meaningful achievement and put under continual stress for largely meaningless exams....

When kids have so little influence in the nature of their environment, teachers are running a stupid rule book, and where 'accomplishment' is so meaningless with respect to what's personally fulfilling, is it really going to be surprising if people grow up without much confidence?

After all, what opportunity would they have had to exercise it?

Re: My Ideas, My Boss’s Property

#112

Post by nitrogen »

crdoconnor wrote: post #103
tjmc wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the alternative to signing walking away? Whenever I've been handed terms like this in a contract I've struck them off and explained why prior to signing. I've never lost a job because of it and it's usually a sub-10 minute conversation.

There is a limit to how much an employer can ask for in negotiations before I start to assume bad faith. A 2 year non-compete covering the entire industry I work in? That's not even halfway reasonable. You're actively trying to fuck me over. I don't care that it's not enforceable. You're still trying to fuck me over. I don't care that you're willing to compromise on that clause when I argue. You're still trying to fu…

I've seen "unenforceable" non-competes, combined with bogus accusations of infringement, destroy entire companies and the products that other companies built on them, just through attrition.

Re: My Ideas, My Boss’s Property

#113

Post by tjmc »

crdoconnor wrote: post #103
tjmc wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the alternative to signing walking away? Whenever I've been handed terms like this in a contract I've struck them off and explained why prior to signing. I've never lost a job because of it and it's usually a sub-10 minute conversation.

There is a limit to how much an employer can ask for in negotiations before I start to assume bad faith. A 2 year non-compete covering the entire industry I work in? That's not even halfway reasonable. You're actively trying to fuck me over. I don't care that it's not enforceable. You're still trying to fuck me over. I don't care that you're willing to compromise on that clause when I argue. You're still trying to fu…

I totally respect that stance and I wish it was more widespread. Just speaking from my own experiences – I’ve been presented 2 or 3 very unreasonable contracts that I renegotiated and the employers were fine to work with. I think the non-compete clauses were there out of their own insecurities about competitors rather than any intention to screw me over. I can’t know that for sure, but at the end of the day the only thing that matters is it was all out of the contract before I signed it.

In business, a lot of people like to play hardball. Doesn't mean they’re all assholes. Taking them on and negotiating mutually agreeable terms can be a good outcome in itself. It’s a very useful skill to have.

Re: My Ideas, My Boss’s Property

#115

Post by faster »

crdoconnor wrote: post #103
tjmc wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the alternative to signing walking away? Whenever I've been handed terms like this in a contract I've struck them off and explained why prior to signing. I've never lost a job because of it and it's usually a sub-10 minute conversation.

There is a limit to how much an employer can ask for in negotiations before I start to assume bad faith. A 2 year non-compete covering the entire industry I work in? That's not even halfway reasonable. You're actively trying to fuck me over. I don't care that it's not enforceable. You're still trying to fuck me over. I don't care that you're willing to compromise on that clause when I argue. You're still trying to fu…

Most companies buy packages of HR docs from their law firm, or from an HR-focused law firm that does nothing but churn these things out. They all have the same basic list of clauses. So I wouldn't attribute this one clause to general maliciousness. I would wonder though, why so many people said there was no such clause.

I have drawn lines through the objectionable parts of employment agreements, initialed my changes, and then sat patiently while the HR people freak out. It has usually worked out happily for all concerned, not counting the people who think the employment agreement is a gift from their god and must not be altered by mere mortals. When those people have enough power to reject my rejection, I'm happy to walk. But it's important to verify that they have that power, IMHO.

Re: My Ideas, My Boss’s Property

#116

Post by Terr_ »

cynicalkane wrote: post #71
A_COMPUTER wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I basically did whistle my way out the door because of this. I worked as a contractor for a very large defense company. After a year, they offered me full time employment. I specifically asked if there was a "we own everything you make" clause in the employment agreement, but I was assured there was not. I went through about five digital form contracts, and when I got to the last one, it had the clause in there. I to…

If you had a written promise, could you sue?

IANAL, you sort of can, but mainly in compensation for expenses you incurred based on expecting them to come through.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estoppel#American_law

Re: My Ideas, My Boss’s Property

#117

Post by kookiekrak »

cynicalkane wrote: post #71
A_COMPUTER wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I basically did whistle my way out the door because of this. I worked as a contractor for a very large defense company. After a year, they offered me full time employment. I specifically asked if there was a "we own everything you make" clause in the employment agreement, but I was assured there was not. I went through about five digital form contracts, and when I got to the last one, it had the clause in there. I to…

If you had a written promise, could you sue?

Would you work for an employer that you had to sue to force them to allow you to work there?

Re: My Ideas, My Boss’s Property

#118

Post by ChristianMarks »

barryaustin wrote: post #69

Hyper-aggressive lawyering by a powerful entity can be an early indicator of how they treat people and use power. The important thing is to actually read and understand the agreements that employers expect you to sign. Some examples of what would catch my attention: * Restricting what activities you can't do on your own time, even when there's no harm to the company. * Playing games with definitions (especially key t…

Suppose you do describe some IP for exclusion. Does this mean subsequent improvements or modifications undertaken on your own time and on your own equipment are not excluded?

Re: My Ideas, My Boss’s Property

#119

Post by naringas »

what you grow on this land is mine; this land is mine. - civilization

this machine is mine; what you manufacture with it is mine -- industrialization

the ideas you come up with are mine; that idea is mine - ??

Re: My Ideas, My Boss’s Property

#120

Post by ChristianMarks »

michaelochurch wrote: post #35

With top talent, you never really employ it. You just sponsor it. If you fail to recognize this, people become demotivated and that talent is either meaningless, or turned against you. The problem is that employers, and almost all of them are this way, are do damn short-sighted. They'll pinch pennies on benefits, lay people off for the slightest reason or no reason, and burn hours of time on psychotic, all-consuming…

Right. In most cases, the only effective way to "steal" an idea would be to steal the entire company that goes with it.
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