Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Suicide Prevention Sheds a Longstanding Taboo: Talking About Attempts

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 46 posts

Re: Suicide Prevention Sheds a Longstanding Taboo: Talking About Attempts

#11

Post by altero »

graeme wrote: post #6

Serious question: is someone who attempts suicide in the same group as someone who successfully commits suicide? For instance, far more men commit suicide. But far more women attempt suicide: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide I'm sure there are other differences. To me, the questions are: 1. Why do people fail at suicide attempts? 2. Will information that dissuades a failed suicide attempt di…

It is not suicide attempt if you are not planning to die. For example drug overdose is not necessary suicide attempt.

Men in general are treated like a shit, so they kill themselfs. Most women are emotionally blackmailing their families.

Re: Suicide Prevention Sheds a Longstanding Taboo: Talking About Attempts

#12

Post by mbillie1 »

altero wrote: post #11
graeme wrote: post #6

Serious question: is someone who attempts suicide in the same group as someone who successfully commits suicide? For instance, far more men commit suicide. But far more women attempt suicide: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide I'm sure there are other differences. To me, the questions are: 1. Why do people fail at suicide attempts? 2. Will information that dissuades a failed suicide attempt di…

It is not suicide attempt if you are not planning to die. For example drug overdose is not necessary suicide attempt. Men in general are treated like a shit, so they kill themselfs. Most women are emotionally blackmailing their families.

This post consists of 1) an undocumented / unproven assertion, 2) a laughable generalization, and 3) an offensive generalization.

Re: Suicide Prevention Sheds a Longstanding Taboo: Talking About Attempts

#13

Post by rhuppert »

graeme wrote: post #6

Serious question: is someone who attempts suicide in the same group as someone who successfully commits suicide? For instance, far more men commit suicide. But far more women attempt suicide: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide I'm sure there are other differences. To me, the questions are: 1. Why do people fail at suicide attempts? 2. Will information that dissuades a failed suicide attempt di…

1. Men are more "successful" because they tend to use more violent methods - guns, jumping off high places, etc. Women are more likely to use pills. Sometimes attempts are more of a call for help than ending one's life. 2. Your question is unclear to me, but most people who have attempted and failed to commit suicide regret that decision.

Re: Suicide Prevention Sheds a Longstanding Taboo: Talking About Attempts

#14

Post by mbillie1 »

evanlivingston wrote: post #3

The longstanding taboo I think is actually allowing people to commit suicide. This question rarely enters the debate.

Can you elaborate on this? I think it would be virtually impossible to prevent suicide, not to mention various things perhaps not treated as suicide but which are self-caused deaths (repeatedly engaging in very-very-high-risk activity, for example).

Re: Suicide Prevention Sheds a Longstanding Taboo: Talking About Attempts

#15

Post by id »

graeme wrote: post #6

Serious question: is someone who attempts suicide in the same group as someone who successfully commits suicide? For instance, far more men commit suicide. But far more women attempt suicide: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide I'm sure there are other differences. To me, the questions are: 1. Why do people fail at suicide attempts? 2. Will information that dissuades a failed suicide attempt di…

Committing suicide is actually very difficult. All humans have a strong will to survive, which is always present, even if you are suicidal. Additionally, a painless, nonviolent suicide needs a lot of preparation, which isn't exactly easy either if you are lethargic.

Re: Suicide Prevention Sheds a Longstanding Taboo: Talking About Attempts

#16

Post by altero »

mbillie1 wrote: post #12
altero wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not suicide attempt if you are not planning to die. For example drug overdose is not necessary suicide attempt. Men in general are treated like a shit, so they kill themselfs. Most women are emotionally blackmailing their families.

This post consists of 1) an undocumented / unproven assertion, 2) a laughable generalization, and 3) an offensive generalization.

What part do you actually disagree with?

If you have two persons with the same body mass, both of them drink 1 liter of whiskey. I bet in one case it will be 'really bad hangover' and in second case it will be 'suicide attempt'.

Re: Suicide Prevention Sheds a Longstanding Taboo: Talking About Attempts

#17

Post by evanlivingston »

mbillie1 wrote: post #14
evanlivingston wrote: post #3

The longstanding taboo I think is actually allowing people to commit suicide. This question rarely enters the debate.

Can you elaborate on this? I think it would be virtually impossible to prevent suicide, not to mention various things perhaps not treated as suicide but which are self-caused deaths (repeatedly engaging in very-very-high-risk activity, for example).

I mean that suicide is perceived as something to prevent, but I don't often see the conversation about _why_ we are preventing it. Clinical depression is a beast, and many people who pursue treatment seriously continue to struggle with it their whole lives. I think great minds like David Foster Wallace prove how persistent depression is. Suicide is a real escape from the incredible pain that depression can cause, yet we continue to culturally perpetuate the taboo of suicide. The question is; Why is it not okay for people to kill themselves?

Re: Suicide Prevention Sheds a Longstanding Taboo: Talking About Attempts

#18

Post by id »

mbillie1 wrote: post #12
altero wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not suicide attempt if you are not planning to die. For example drug overdose is not necessary suicide attempt. Men in general are treated like a shit, so they kill themselfs. Most women are emotionally blackmailing their families.

This post consists of 1) an undocumented / unproven assertion, 2) a laughable generalization, and 3) an offensive generalization.

I would say it's all three combined.

Re: Suicide Prevention Sheds a Longstanding Taboo: Talking About Attempts

#19

Post by sien »

id wrote: post #9
dclowd9901 wrote: post #4

"...in the past few years, scores of them have come together on social media and in other forums to demand a bigger voice in prevention efforts." Wha-? I'm by no means a heartless person. However, I truly believe if you don't want to live any more, that it's your right and your responsibility. I'm not in your head. I don't know what you're thinking. Most of the time, I won't even know that you're depressed. Many peop…

It's not your fault, like it's not your fault when children die of cancer. That doesn't mean we should find ways to prevent it. Most poeple who attempt or commit suicide don't want to die, but rather prefer death over life because they want to put an end to their suffering. That said, I don't think talking about attempts will help someone who is suicidal in the slightest. If anything it leads to emulation suicides, a…

Copycat suicide is contested.

This has more detail:

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2006/10/werther_effect_copyca...

This podcast discusses the issue:

http://freakonomics.com/2011/08/31/new-freakonomics-radio-po...

Re: Suicide Prevention Sheds a Longstanding Taboo: Talking About Attempts

#20

Post by mbillie1 »

graeme wrote: post #6

Serious question: is someone who attempts suicide in the same group as someone who successfully commits suicide? For instance, far more men commit suicide. But far more women attempt suicide: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide I'm sure there are other differences. To me, the questions are: 1. Why do people fail at suicide attempts? 2. Will information that dissuades a failed suicide attempt di…

Well, in answer to 1., often suicide is attempted at times of extreme emotional volatility - in other words, when it's easy to make a mistake. Additionally, suicide is almost always linked to depression, which manifests itself in a whole host of ways. It's easy to say "just point a gun at your head and shoot, what's so hard about that?" Well it's terrifying, which is emotional. It costs money to acquire a gun, and money problems are highly associated with depression. It's a social activity, and social anxiety often is related to suicidal behavior, etc.

If it were a decision like "which toothpaste works better", and you could calmly evaluate evidence and act impartially, I imagine there would be fewer suicide attempts, fewer suicides, and a higher percentage of attempts would succeed. But this is a vastly different sort of thing, an intrinsically uninstinctual act. This is just speculation, but I would guess that the rare cases where the suicidal person is overwhelmingly justified by his or her decision (Goering killing himself painlessly rather than being tried and hanged), the success rate improves.

In response to 2., I have no idea - that is an empirical question. But it's an interesting question, and it's good to see the topic discussed in the media as it generally is quite taboo.

Post reply on HN