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Mozilla Moving Forward

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Re: Mozilla Moving Forward

#81

Post by radmuzom »

kaonashi wrote: post #33
natural219 wrote: post #3

I'm still mad about the Brendan Eich thing. Like, mad . I'm totally fine with anybody pursuing whatever kind of political agenda they want, but at the moment you start to derail real progress, the moment you attack one of the best organizations who has literally been busting its ass for the last decade to change the world for no profit... Well, you declared war. I think this whole debacle should be a rallying cry tha…

I find absolutely nothing wrong with the way he was treated. To say that somehow he was the victim of bullying, when he was the one who was taking action to deny other people their rights, is so morally backwards I have a hard time conceding that you're arguing in good faith.

It's strange that this is getting downvoted. Nobody went and physically abused Eich to remove him as CEO. It's strange that those who are supporting Eich for his right to his own views are against our right to express outrage.

Re: Mozilla Moving Forward

#82

Post by Mikeb85 »

homulilly wrote: post #75
Mikeb85 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well let's just fire all Muslims, Christians, Buddhists and Hindus since those religions all traditionally are against homosexuality and also have sexist elements.

People protested Eich because of his personal actions, not for being a member of any religious or ethnic group. Besides, I personally know Christians and Muslims who not only do not work against gay and feminist rights, but are activists in those areas. All you're accomplishing here is making yourself look intolerant.

Going to a mosque, church or temple is an action. People usually donate to their religious organisation, and in turn that money may go to advertising traditional relationships or beliefs, and at the very least is money going to an organisation that won't marry gays...

Re: Mozilla Moving Forward

#83

Post by king_jester »

patrickg_zill wrote: post #13
natural219 wrote: post #3

I'm still mad about the Brendan Eich thing. Like, mad . I'm totally fine with anybody pursuing whatever kind of political agenda they want, but at the moment you start to derail real progress, the moment you attack one of the best organizations who has literally been busting its ass for the last decade to change the world for no profit... Well, you declared war. I think this whole debacle should be a rallying cry tha…

I think your point is (paraphrasing), we canned a very productive engineer and manager over his un-PC views expressed in his personal life, but which no one at his organization was affected by; and in return, since none of the people criticizing him or pushing for his departure has the ability to truly replace his talent, we have the prospect of the unproductive people criticizing the people who actually get things d…

> but which no one at his organization was affected by;

Uh what? There are most certainly LGBTQ folks who work for Mozilla in some capacity or another and they most certainly are affected by nationally focused political efforts to deny them access to a basic institution.

Re: Mozilla Moving Forward

#84

Post by bkor »

Xdes wrote: post #16

Time to see Chris Beard's track record for contributions.

I really dislike that Brendan Eich was appointed because the board appointed him while knowing his position on prop 8. Yet no statement while there was a huge backlash at the time that news came out. For me CTO vs CEO matters a lot.

CTO vs reversing gay rights: don't like the person, wouldn't want to work directly or indirectly for that person

appointing someone who you already know reversed gay rights and causes an uproar: wtf

I'm not gay and also not part of any gay rights organization. In tech sites within Netherlands the views expressed are totally different than here on Hackers News. Meaning: most are amazed how he could have been considered a CEO.

Re: Mozilla Moving Forward

#85

Post by davidgerard »

twoodfin wrote: post #59
nostromo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And where do you draw the line? Are you going to defend people that oppose Women's Suffrage too? What about slavery supporters? These were just political opinions once too. But today you'll find that they get you fired as CEO. And for good reason: blacks and women (and gays) are your customers and employees and business partners.

I'm genuinely curious where you would draw your line. Would you support firing Mozilla's CEO if it's revealed he voted for Mitt Romney? What if he gave his campaign $1000?

It was outrage from the users that did for Eich.

Re: Mozilla Moving Forward

#86

Post by Mikeb85 »

Tloewald wrote: post #80
Mikeb85 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well let's just fire all Muslims, Christians, Buddhists and Hindus since those religions all traditionally are against homosexuality and also have sexist elements.

Buddhism?

Yes, traditional Buddhist beliefs are quite sexist (many sects believe women must get reincarnated as men before they're able to achieve liberation), and uphold traditional views of marriage.

Edit - have to add though, that Buddhists are generally very tolerant of those of opposing beliefs, and still preach compassion and love above all else.

Re: Mozilla Moving Forward

#87

Post by rondon »

twoodfin wrote: post #59
nostromo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And where do you draw the line? Are you going to defend people that oppose Women's Suffrage too? What about slavery supporters? These were just political opinions once too. But today you'll find that they get you fired as CEO. And for good reason: blacks and women (and gays) are your customers and employees and business partners.

I'm genuinely curious where you would draw your line. Would you support firing Mozilla's CEO if it's revealed he voted for Mitt Romney? What if he gave his campaign $1000?

You need to draw lots of lines for lots of different personal beliefs. Prop 8 is an easy one to know which side is on the right side of universal human rights. You are free to feel that gays shouldn't marry, just like you are free to say that women shouldn't be CEOs, but you disqualify yourself from being the head of a group like Mozilla when you do that.

Re: Mozilla Moving Forward

#88

Post by davidw »

twoodfin wrote: post #76
davidw wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we can all agree that it's a fuzzy, gray line, and move on to talking about things that can actually move our businesses forward, or are cool hacks, interesting phenomenon or otherwise generate more light than heat.

A fuzzy, gray line that cost a smart hacker a job he was otherwise incredibly well-suited for? If it's really that indistinct, it's scary: I might want to work for a company some day that cares about where that line is, and I'd like to stay on the right side of it.

"Working for" and "being the leader and representative of" are two different things. Eich's views were known to Mozilla for a while before this blew up.

If you want an honest answer, I think if you want to play the political game, you need to keep your cards close to your chest. You may not like that answer, and you folks can furiously click on the downvote arrow all you like, but I think that's the reality of it: for an extreme example, look at how closely every single aspect of US presidential candidates' lives are picked over, both present and past.

I'll add to that: not everyone should do that - I'm glad that some people have stuck their necks out in the past. We all owe some of them a debt of gratitude. But, by and large, they're probably not the same people aiming at the top job in a large corporation.

Re: Mozilla Moving Forward

#89

Post by leoc »

nostromo wrote: post #44
natural219 wrote: post #3

I'm still mad about the Brendan Eich thing. Like, mad . I'm totally fine with anybody pursuing whatever kind of political agenda they want, but at the moment you start to derail real progress, the moment you attack one of the best organizations who has literally been busting its ass for the last decade to change the world for no profit... Well, you declared war. I think this whole debacle should be a rallying cry tha…

And where do you draw the line? Are you going to defend people that oppose Women's Suffrage too? What about slavery supporters? These were just political opinions once too. But today you'll find that they get you fired as CEO. And for good reason: blacks and women (and gays) are your customers and employees and business partners.

How about Stalin apologists? Should they be tolerated in high-ranking technical or creative jobs?

Re: Mozilla Moving Forward

#90

Post by baddox »

homulilly wrote: post #75
Mikeb85 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well let's just fire all Muslims, Christians, Buddhists and Hindus since those religions all traditionally are against homosexuality and also have sexist elements.

People protested Eich because of his personal actions, not for being a member of any religious or ethnic group. Besides, I personally know Christians and Muslims who not only do not work against gay and feminist rights, but are activists in those areas. All you're accomplishing here is making yourself look intolerant.

Being a member of a religious group is also a personal action.
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