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Mozilla Moving Forward

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Re: Mozilla Moving Forward

#41

Post by binarycrusader »

MrZongle2 wrote: post #25
kourt wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proposition 8 was an opinion of the masses: it received 7,001,084 (52.24%) of the votes.

It amazes me that you've been downvoted for posting a fact . Proposition 8 was passed by a majority: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8_%28200... However one feels about the result, only a fascist would want to shove that bit of history down the memory hole.

"opinion of the masses" is a subjective interpretation of events; not a fact.

As to "passed by a majority", I would say, that depends on how you define a majority. A majority in the context of voting laws, perhaps. But I sincerely doubt it was actually representative of the entire population of California as a whole.

I also find it a bit ironic that someone would resort to name-calling in a thread attempting to defend the unpopular views of an individual as their right to have.

Re: Mozilla Moving Forward

#42

Post by grej »

To me, one of the saddest things about this whole episode was the fact that Brendan Eich was a true technical leader. His contributions literally helped create and define the modern internet. I believe he was well positioned to help move Mozilla beyond simply being a browser company/nonprofit org, and advance the Mozilla mission of bringing openness and innovation to the web.

Rust, ASM.js, and Firefox OS are some of the biggest projects at Mozilla and are critical areas that have to be executed well for Mozilla to gain traction in the mobile device world and beyond. I thought that Brendan Eich's background uniquely qualified him to guide Mozilla over the next few years in maturing these technologies into something that can help disrupt the trend of "walled-garden" web ecosystems. I was and still am really rooting for Mozilla to succeed in these efforts, because the web needs them to. Sadly Brendan Eich is now gone from Mozilla and along with him goes a wealth of knowledge, history, and experience that would undoubtedly have helped advance the cause of a free and open internet.

All that said, I don't know as much about Chris Beard's history as I did Brendan's, and I don't know if he can provide the same level of technical leadership in these areas that Brendan Eich could have. I suppose we will find out. I remain hopeful, but not yet optimistic.

Re: Mozilla Moving Forward

#43

Post by bane »

crystaln wrote: post #22
natural219 wrote: post #3

I'm still mad about the Brendan Eich thing. Like, mad . I'm totally fine with anybody pursuing whatever kind of political agenda they want, but at the moment you start to derail real progress, the moment you attack one of the best organizations who has literally been busting its ass for the last decade to change the world for no profit... Well, you declared war. I think this whole debacle should be a rallying cry tha…

I read this twice, and I still have no idea what you are trying to say, which side of any issue you are on, or what makes you any different from over-reacting haters on either side.

He must be talking about Eich, since he was clearly supporting the group of bullies who were so flagrant and pernicious that they'd even pass a law to prevent grown consenting adults from having meaningful relationships with each other.

Re: Mozilla Moving Forward

#44

Post by nostromo »

natural219 wrote: post #3

I'm still mad about the Brendan Eich thing. Like, mad . I'm totally fine with anybody pursuing whatever kind of political agenda they want, but at the moment you start to derail real progress, the moment you attack one of the best organizations who has literally been busting its ass for the last decade to change the world for no profit... Well, you declared war. I think this whole debacle should be a rallying cry tha…

And where do you draw the line?

Are you going to defend people that oppose Women's Suffrage too? What about slavery supporters?

These were just political opinions once too. But today you'll find that they get you fired as CEO. And for good reason: blacks and women (and gays) are your customers and employees and business partners.

Re: Mozilla Moving Forward

#45

Post by macrael »

natural219 wrote: post #3

I'm still mad about the Brendan Eich thing. Like, mad . I'm totally fine with anybody pursuing whatever kind of political agenda they want, but at the moment you start to derail real progress, the moment you attack one of the best organizations who has literally been busting its ass for the last decade to change the world for no profit... Well, you declared war. I think this whole debacle should be a rallying cry tha…

I actually really liked Marco Arment's take on this. http://www.marco.org/2014/04/04/political-views

As time marches forward our society's tolerance for certain viewpoints has changed. This is a good thing.

Re: Mozilla Moving Forward

#46

Post by arrrg »

rebelidealist wrote: post #6

There is a stark contrast with how Drew Houston of Dropbox defended Condi Rice vs Mozilla's lack of effort in defending someone that instrumental part of what Mozilla is today. https://blog.dropbox.com/2014/04/our-commitment-to-your-righ... His pointed response is short and stern. "We’re honored to have Dr. Rice join our board" Mozilla's was apologetic. "We didn’t act like you’d expect Mozilla to act. We didn’t move…

Do you really think that makes the difference?

Some decide to stick with it, others don’t. That’s the only difference I can see. And I don’t think either decision is always the right one. I think it’s important to be consistent in how you apply your principles and to be willing to listen to people telling you your principles suck and to change your principles if their arguments are convincing. That, to me, is the bare minimum to be a decent organisation. Add to that actually having decent principles and you are getting there.

In that context the “bullying” framing makes zero sense to me. People were unhappy with the principles of an organisation, people voiced their opinion and acted on their belief (by stopping to use products of the organisation). So far so completely harmless. The organisations decided to react or not and that’s that.

The bottom line is that you can expect to lose customers if you do certain things. Oh, wow. What an insight. Still has nothing to do with bullying.

Re: Mozilla Moving Forward

#47

Post by smtddr »

binarycrusader wrote: post #41
MrZongle2 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It amazes me that you've been downvoted for posting a fact . Proposition 8 was passed by a majority: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8_%28200... However one feels about the result, only a fascist would want to shove that bit of history down the memory hole.

"opinion of the masses" is a subjective interpretation of events; not a fact. As to "passed by a majority", I would say, that depends on how you define a majority. A majority in the context of voting laws, perhaps. But I sincerely doubt it was actually representative of the entire population of California as a whole. I also find it a bit ironic that someone would resort to name-calling in a thread attempting to defen…

Furthermore,

Prop8 was passed based on propaganda.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/04/04/brendan_eich_s...

Under normal circumstances prop8 would __never__ have passed in California, of all places.

People keep screaming about "Tolerance goes both ways", but society needs to move pass discrimination based on race/gender/orientation. Donating money to help pass a law taking away someone else's rights is ridiculous and shouldn't be tolerated. So if I see a new prop9 banning interracial marriages should I consider it merely a point of view? What if prop10 says black people can't vote? How far do we consider "point of view" or "freedom of speech" before we decide enough is enough and we're not going to regress back to the 1920s?

Re: Mozilla Moving Forward

#49

Post by drawkbox »

This is a pretty massive change.

Eich was technology/standards focused. Someone from the product/marketing side is ok as long as they get Mozilla is really a technology product company (business and marketing is easier when technology/products are the base focus and you don't lose developers targeting the platform).

I am a little concerned that a switch was flipped at Mozilla when the former Chief Marketing Officer is now CEO over the CTO previously. Granted the new CEO has been around the company a while and oversaw Firefox is helpful, I just hope they keep the technology/standards as their base focus. I feel many of the things I love Mozilla for, asm.js most recently, may not be as focused as before. Also, I lost a ton of respect for Mozilla for throwing a founder under the bus.

Re: Mozilla Moving Forward

#50

Post by twoodfin »

Xdes wrote: post #16

Time to see Chris Beard's track record for contributions.

Let's not. I think the folks who feel someone's political actions and views are a good reason to shun or punish them are wrong. I don't care what you're for or against: If you participate non-violently in a political debate and don't let your views interfere with your work, including how you treat your coworkers, I'm happy to work with you or for you. Or grab a beer with you and try to change your mind.
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