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Inside the Soviet Army (1982)

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Re: Inside the Soviet Army (1982)

#21

Post by laichzeit0 »

korzun wrote: post #14
tumanian wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putin's administration justifies the current economic state and the rampant corruption in Russia by that Russia has is own 'special way' of development which is limited the history and the socio-economic heritage of the communist regime. If Ukraine(or any other ex-Soviet country) manages to get rid of the current cleptocratic system and launches succesfull socio-economic reforms that tackle corruption, it will be a s…

Ukraine is broke. They owe Russia millions of dollars and have been living on pretty much free gas (courtesy of Russia). I assume you live in US? Do you not find it ironic that you blame Russia for taking this seriously (in their own backyard) while US have been staging government coups within other countries (with multiple death tolls) for decades? And in regards to corruption: "People who live in glass houses shoul…

From someone external to all of this, I don't think the US really has a foot to stand on when it comes to telling the rest of the world what to do militarily. The Iraq and Afganistan wars really leave a bad taste in my mouth. Where are those WMDs that the entire war was based on? I still remember seeing Cheney standing in front of the entire world and showing those bullshit pictures to the UN. They invaded a foreign country and killed people based on that bullshit.

Re: Inside the Soviet Army (1982)

#22

Post by notastartup »

korzun wrote: post #14
tumanian wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putin's administration justifies the current economic state and the rampant corruption in Russia by that Russia has is own 'special way' of development which is limited the history and the socio-economic heritage of the communist regime. If Ukraine(or any other ex-Soviet country) manages to get rid of the current cleptocratic system and launches succesfull socio-economic reforms that tackle corruption, it will be a s…

Ukraine is broke. They owe Russia millions of dollars and have been living on pretty much free gas (courtesy of Russia). I assume you live in US? Do you not find it ironic that you blame Russia for taking this seriously (in their own backyard) while US have been staging government coups within other countries (with multiple death tolls) for decades? And in regards to corruption: "People who live in glass houses shoul…

I do see your point. US has to a certain degree have lost a lot of credibility especially with Afghanistan and Iraq. I definitely think Russia has the right to look out for it's own interests especially when US have been doing so for a long time now, often behind the veil of covert operations aimed at puppeteering elite ruling social class in different countries often through the usage of economic warfare through fronts like the World Bank and International Monetary Fund by freely giving loans and aids and in return taking their resources, be it oil or soldiers to fight their other armed conflicts. US is able to achieve this most of the time without the usage of force.

Re: Inside the Soviet Army (1982)

#23

Post by notastartup »

vasilipupkin wrote: post #17
korzun wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukraine is broke. They owe Russia millions of dollars and have been living on pretty much free gas (courtesy of Russia). I assume you live in US? Do you not find it ironic that you blame Russia for taking this seriously (in their own backyard) while US have been staging government coups within other countries (with multiple death tolls) for decades? And in regards to corruption: "People who live in glass houses shoul…

Ukraine is broke to a large extent because it's economy has been essentially taken over by corrupt oligarchs with close Kremlin ties. As far as comparisons with U.S., in the context of the cold war U.S. has done some nasty things. But look at all the countries which U.S. was heavily involed in. Taiwan? South Korea? Chile? Germany ? Japan? How are they doing 20, 30 years later. Now look at countries that have had heav…

South Korea definitely had a period of dictatorship and hard knock life for it's citizens. I think Taiwan also had a period of such oppressive rule. Chile as well had dictatorship up to 90s.

At least South Korea is doing well because it has seen so much sacrifice of it's own people by enriching the nation's government and it's handful of conglomerates. They may be doing well but South Korea and Japan has the highest suicide rates, a sign that although economically prosperous do not equate to collective happiness. Chile for instance has a higher happiness index than of South Korea or Japan.

However, I will add that such economic progress is not at all miserable and unwanted situation. U.S. has provided much of the security guarantees and the environment for such successes.

Re: Inside the Soviet Army (1982)

#24

Post by Perdition »

notastartup wrote: post #20
tumanian wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putin's administration justifies the current economic state and the rampant corruption in Russia by that Russia has is own 'special way' of development which is limited the history and the socio-economic heritage of the communist regime. If Ukraine(or any other ex-Soviet country) manages to get rid of the current cleptocratic system and launches succesfull socio-economic reforms that tackle corruption, it will be a s…

that is very good insight. Another point might be the idea of creating buffer zone (Ukraine) to counter the threat of NATO military assets being placed right at the border with Russia, access to Black Sea. I understand that if Putin does not take Ukraine, NATO will. This is like China not willing to give up North Korea, it has it's function as a buffer.

That is why it is happening. NATO was set-up to counter the Soviets (dominated by Russia) and it is a slap in the face for Russia to allow NATO right on their border when they are trying to become a real world power again.

NATO might have gotten away with limited defence/economic pacts with former Soviet satellites, but full NATO and EU membership was bound to provoke a reaction from Russia.

Apparently the US State Department didn't learn from its arrogance in Iraq, because such blatant provocation shouldn't have been allowed.

Re: Inside the Soviet Army (1982)

#25

Post by Demiurge »

vasilipupkin wrote: post #17
korzun wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukraine is broke. They owe Russia millions of dollars and have been living on pretty much free gas (courtesy of Russia). I assume you live in US? Do you not find it ironic that you blame Russia for taking this seriously (in their own backyard) while US have been staging government coups within other countries (with multiple death tolls) for decades? And in regards to corruption: "People who live in glass houses shoul…

Ukraine is broke to a large extent because it's economy has been essentially taken over by corrupt oligarchs with close Kremlin ties. As far as comparisons with U.S., in the context of the cold war U.S. has done some nasty things. But look at all the countries which U.S. was heavily involed in. Taiwan? South Korea? Chile? Germany ? Japan? How are they doing 20, 30 years later. Now look at countries that have had heav…

How was Ukraine doing when it was taken over by uncorrupt Ushenko, whos wife is openly a CIA agent?

Re: Inside the Soviet Army (1982)

#26

Post by alexeisadeski3 »

Quote From Part VIII:

Soviet Communists are frequently reproached for having attempted to build a socialist society but having produced something which closely resembles a prison. Such a charge is entirely unjustified. In the Soviet Union some of the inmates have larger cells than others, some eat well, others badly. There is complete confusion-a lot remains to be done to tidy up the situation. True socialism, in which everyone is truly equal, does not just resemble a prison-it is a prison. It can not exist unless it is surrounded by high walls, by watchtowers and by guard-dogs, for people always want to escape from any socialist regime, just as they do from a prison. If you try to nationalise medicine and, from the best possible motives, to guarantee work for all the doctors, you will find that they pack their bags and leave the country. Try to bring a little order into the situation and your engineers (the best ones), your designers, your ballerinas (again, the best ones) and many, many others will also flee abroad. If you continue your attempts to establish a model society you will need to build walls around it. You will be forced to do this sooner or later by the flood of refugees.

Re: Inside the Soviet Army (1982)

#27

Post by Demiurge »

notastartup wrote: post #23
vasilipupkin wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukraine is broke to a large extent because it's economy has been essentially taken over by corrupt oligarchs with close Kremlin ties. As far as comparisons with U.S., in the context of the cold war U.S. has done some nasty things. But look at all the countries which U.S. was heavily involed in. Taiwan? South Korea? Chile? Germany ? Japan? How are they doing 20, 30 years later. Now look at countries that have had heav…

South Korea definitely had a period of dictatorship and hard knock life for it's citizens. I think Taiwan also had a period of such oppressive rule. Chile as well had dictatorship up to 90s. At least South Korea is doing well because it has seen so much sacrifice of it's own people by enriching the nation's government and it's handful of conglomerates. They may be doing well but South Korea and Japan has the highest…

You are entirely correct. All of these Asian economic successes were under a military dictatorship. The work week in South Korea is 6 days, 16 hours a day. It's not magic, it's really hard work and strictness.

Re: Inside the Soviet Army (1982)

#28

Post by spingsprong »

"It is, in fact, impossible to reach the speeds of which the MIG-25 is capable using titanium: yet the Soviet designers had managed to build this, the fastest combat aircraft in the world, from ordinary steel. "

Right...

MiG-25, Mach-2.8. All steel.

SR-71, Mach-3.5. Uses titanium for 85% of its structure.

Re: Inside the Soviet Army (1982)

#29

Post by ceejayoz »

Perdition wrote: post #24
notastartup wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that is very good insight. Another point might be the idea of creating buffer zone (Ukraine) to counter the threat of NATO military assets being placed right at the border with Russia, access to Black Sea. I understand that if Putin does not take Ukraine, NATO will. This is like China not willing to give up North Korea, it has it's function as a buffer.

That is why it is happening. NATO was set-up to counter the Soviets (dominated by Russia) and it is a slap in the face for Russia to allow NATO right on their border when they are trying to become a real world power again. NATO might have gotten away with limited defence/economic pacts with former Soviet satellites, but full NATO and EU membership was bound to provoke a reaction from Russia. Apparently the US State D…

> Apparently the US State Department didn't learn from its arrogance in Iraq, because such blatant provocation shouldn't have been allowed.

Provocation: Letting Ukraine voluntarily choose closer ties with the West

Not Provocation: Invading and annexing the Crimea

Gotcha.

Also, since when is the US State Department in charge of the EU?

Re: Inside the Soviet Army (1982)

#30

Post by Perdition »

ceejayoz wrote: post #29
Perdition wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is why it is happening. NATO was set-up to counter the Soviets (dominated by Russia) and it is a slap in the face for Russia to allow NATO right on their border when they are trying to become a real world power again. NATO might have gotten away with limited defence/economic pacts with former Soviet satellites, but full NATO and EU membership was bound to provoke a reaction from Russia. Apparently the US State D…

> Apparently the US State Department didn't learn from its arrogance in Iraq, because such blatant provocation shouldn't have been allowed. Provocation: Letting Ukraine voluntarily choose closer ties with the West Not Provocation: Invading and annexing the Crimea Gotcha. Also, since when is the US State Department in charge of the EU?

>Provocation: Letting Ukraine voluntarily choose closer ties with the West

Ukraine should have been quietly told that joining NATO or the EU was not possible.

>Not Provocation: Invading and annexing the Crimea

Strawman: This.

What Russia did is absolutely wrong IMO, but it is expected (just like the US doesn't like anyone else messing with South America or the Caribbean).

>Also, since when is the US State Department in charge of the EU?

The US has been the primary power in Western Europe since the 8th of May 1945. The US can directly control who enters NATO, and wields significant influence over the primary EU members. The possibility of Ukraine joining NATO or the EU would have gone through State and should have been firmly rejected.

EDIT: Downvotes and no replies, I can't tell whether I am on Hacker News or reddit.

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