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Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

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Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#191

Post by [deleted] »

rmrfrmrf wrote: post #92
gtCameron wrote: post #9

The question I would try and answer if I were in your shoes is the following: Does he want me to leave the company or does he want me to stop writing production code for the product? If its the first one, there is likely a personal issue between the two of you that needs to be resolved one way or another. If you think the second option is what he is really trying to communicate, then I would look for other opportunit…

I was under the impression that "co-founder" carried a lot more weight than CTO; is this not the case? My gut feeling was that, if I were in the co-founder's shoes, I'd fire the CTO immediately.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#192

Post by muyuu »

jw2013 wrote: post #54

> My question is, does he have a point? No. He is making the wrong assumption here "that he wouldn't hire me if I wasn't already a founder and not what the company needs". First you ARE a founder- I genuinely do not believe you can't learn the knowledge you needed given how motivated you are. And you are learning. Second, he already admit you are what the company needs (at least during this 3-6 months), so why is he…

He's worried that the company may grow and he'd then have rights to a big chunk of equity as the cofounder.

I'd establish that first. What kind of obligations has the company with him? just a salary/contract? part of the ownership?

So yeah, the vesting is key.

It simply doesn't resound logical to me that they are talking about firing him while at the same time he's needed for some months. Sounds ridiculous that they wouldn't have any role for him in that case, even if not as lead dev.

Reeks like backstabbing politics, so par for the course in the startup world.

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#194

Post by ilovecookies »

About you code. Alot of coders use different naming/formatting so that's an NON issue when it comes to your code. Also your the freakin co-founder... that CTO should have more important things to worry about than if the founder is writing camel-case / low-dash variables or functions. Testing is also optional, I know there are lots of coders that has written tons and tons of really useful code with little testing that works flawlessly. The main reason for using testing is maintainability, but since you are in the early stages of development you will usually end up rewriting your system later anyway, to a better / more secure version.

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#195

Post by shin_lao »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #153
sergiosgc wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd go for a shorter version, but: yes, you are right on. Important points: 1. Have legal counsel 2. Deal with the issue now, not later. I'd get a lawyer and fire the CTO. Small teams require absolute trust, and that is now breached. You'll find out in the process how the CEO aligns. Give your partner a heads up, but don't let yourself be moved from the task of firing the CTO.

don't let yourself be moved from the task of firing the CTO Would that have a chance of ripping the company apart if the CEO was agreeing with the CTO? It seems like there's probably nothing to gain from the corpse of a company, so would it be better to avoid that?

If the CEO agrees with the CTO, then the company is dead.

It means the CTO is on a mission by the CEO, who was unable to speak directly with his cofounder.

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#196

Post by ilovecookies »

pedrosorio wrote: post #189
ilovecookies wrote: post #186

Interesting. I was just thinking, do the CTO and the CEO know each other from before? Was it the CEOs idea to hire this CTO maybe? If that's the case maybe this was planned between the CTO and CEO. Since you're the founder with the focus on the tech aspect (basically you should be the CTO) what was the reason for hiring the CTO in the first place? A CTO that's obviously not a better software developer than you. Hard…

"A CTO that's obviously not a better software developer than you." What? The OP clearly points out the CTO is a better developer.

you should also read what OP is posting here in the thread.

" > if you have hired a CTO who is better at engineering than you

He doesn't do development himself(he does review everything before it goes into the production branch), simply that he knows better developers than I.

I have re-written much of our original code to a point where it is of good quality, both in it's intended role and in readability. "

The CTO hasn't written any production code so his software skills are questionable. The OP belives his current code is of good quality right now.

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#197

Post by sadfnjksdf »

shin_lao wrote: post #195
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

don't let yourself be moved from the task of firing the CTO Would that have a chance of ripping the company apart if the CEO was agreeing with the CTO? It seems like there's probably nothing to gain from the corpse of a company, so would it be better to avoid that?

If the CEO agrees with the CTO, then the company is dead. It means the CTO is on a mission by the CEO, who was unable to speak directly with his cofounder.

> the company is dead.

No, it's not. It means the relationship between the cofounders is severely damaged. The company may be fine.

Everyone is making the assumption here that what the CTO is doing is wrong. It may have been the right thing to do for the company. It is just the wrong thing for the OP.

I think the OP should lawyer up, try to get fairly compensated for his contributions, and end the relationship.

Business is unemotional. Those that invest their life into a business are emotional. Be true to yourself and it is ok to love what you do and enjoy who you work with and what you work on, but when it comes down to it, it is a job. Founders are no more special than any others. As soon as you start making significant progress from idea to product, ensure that you have clear written contracts setup.

There should really be a site for those beginning their company that provides sample contracts and talk about about the pros and cons of each approach for ensuring that when relationships end, things are handled in manner civil and with prior understanding of how things work. It could only be a good thing, because the incentive will be there to work more effectively in order to contribute in a way that will end in value immediately and/or later, regardless of the outcome. There are a lot of people that specialize in helping people in this regard, but I can't think of a site that is specifically for the purpose I'm speaking of.

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#198

Post by [deleted] »

throawaycofnder wrote: post #166

Throwaway here. I too (like Bluestrike2) was squeezed out of the company I co-founded. I know what it’s like. And I want to help. In my situation, I didn't get 3-6 months notice. There was a "difference of opinion" about the value of work I was putting into the business, and a "difference of opinion" about where the business should go strategically, and one Tuesday morning I entered a grim meeting where I was given a…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#199

Post by ceejayoz »

Hermel wrote: post #164
Bluestrike2 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any competent attorney will tell you that you should never litigate on principle (such as "punishing" them). If that's your only reason, many attorneys will choose not to take you on as a client right then and there. All the court can do is use money to attempt to redress your grievances, assuming you win. But that's not why you need an attorney right now. Even if you're never going to file suit, an attorney will hel…

You are suggesting that the lawyer can help in two ways: 1. Negotiations 2. Understanding the legal situation Regarding the second point, the correct advice is not to sign contracts whose consequences you do not understand. Regarding the first point, engaging a lawyer will destroy whatever trust and mutual understanding is left in the relationship between the founders. This might be the US way of doing things. But be…

A non-lawyer is going to have a very hard time ensuring they understand the consequences of a contract if it's cleverly written to fuck them.

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#200

Post by hoodoof »

cantlookaway wrote: post #173
gaoshan wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You have phrased this as an almost apologetic post And I bet this is why the CTO has taken the path that they have. They sense the same thing that we sense from the tone of this comment so they are going after that perceived weakness.

I am a very easy going guy who dislikes confrontation, I also assume the people I am working with are my peers, and treat them as such.

You need to grow a pair or you'll be crushed by people like this.
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