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Re: Drop Dropbox

#971

Post by ryguytilidie »

tomasien wrote: post #52

Dropping Mozilla because Eich is anti-gay-marriage made sense to me because Mozilla is the beacon of open source. Mozilla belongs to us in a very personal way, many of us have contributed code to Firefox personally. But Condi Rice joining a completely private Dropbox as a board member - this is a non-issue. I'm as strongly anti-Bush administration and anti-war in general (especially the Iraq War - good grief) as anyo…

Why do you think that it is "ridiculous" for people to be upset that a strong supporter of warrant-less wiretapping and PRISM is now a board member at the place they store their data?

Re: Drop Dropbox

#972

Post by ryguytilidie »

vacri wrote: post #913
ryguytilidie wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But I don't know that I can go on the same kind of crusade for which I faulted the Eich lynch mob." This is so insanely hyperbolic I don't even know where to begin. We're now using the term "lynch mob" for a situation where people a) boycotted the product and b) wrote a lot of things about how what Brandon did was wrong and how he is the wrong choice for CEO. So, lynch mob, which means, "a mob that kills a person fo…

There is an irony in accusing someone else of hyperbole, but demanding that the literal interpretation of their terms be used.

That is a really serious grasp at straws. Its ironic to accuse someone using hyperbole of being hyperbolic while point out that a lynch mob is something completely, 100% different than what they said? Bizarre.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#973

Post by arg01 »

MartinCron wrote: post #468
rakoo wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do see a difference. Eich's stance was (and is) personal, and I'm pretty sure it would have stayed that way. I would have kept using Firefox because of the Mozilla position on privacy and openness, and despite its CEO position. On the other hand, Dropbox is a private company. They don't stand for you, they stand for themselves. They are their own first priority. Having someone as important as Mrs Rice on board is c…

Eich's stance was (and is) personal, and I'm pretty sure it would have stayed that way I think that political contributions are (and should be) fundamentally public acts. You can think all the reprehensible things you want, but once you start materially supporting reprehensible campaigns, it's a different thing altogether.

I disagree mostly because counter culture is much easier for the powers that be to hinder if it needs to declare all it's activities.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#974

Post by vacri »

ryguytilidie wrote: post #972
vacri wrote: post #913

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an irony in accusing someone else of hyperbole, but demanding that the literal interpretation of their terms be used.

That is a really serious grasp at straws. Its ironic to accuse someone using hyperbole of being hyperbolic while point out that a lynch mob is something completely, 100% different than what they said? Bizarre.

The literal meaning of 'lynch mob' is a group of people out to hang an individual. The colloquial meaning of 'lynch mob' is a group of people out to destroy an individual, either socially, professionally, financially; in some way causing a significant downfall.

The shrill mob attacking Eich could be characterised as a lynch mob - they were out for his downfall. It's abundantly clear, given that there has been very little in the way of pro-Mozilla followup to counter the extremely negative points made against them before Eich stepped down. The mob was specifically out for Eich's downfall, not for strengthening Mozilla against unpleasant ethics.

That you demand that 'lynch mob' only be referred to as a mob about to hang an individual is definitely hyperbole on your part. If your significant other says "Sorry about the mess in the kitchen, it's a bit of a disaster area", do you chide them because it's nothing of the sort - no property damage, no maimed or dead people, where are the aid personnel, so on and so forth? If someone describes their new sweater as "itchy as Hell", do you berate them because Hell is not depicted as being an itchy place, referring to the relevant religious dogma about the actualities of Hell?

No, of course not. It's a turn of phrase, not a literal statement, just like 'lynch mob' above. Suggesting that the OP meant in any way a literal lynch mob is your hyperbole.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#975

Post by davidw »

greendestiny wrote: post #934
supersystem wrote: post #899

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since grellas' post was an argument about question #1, I hope people are able to recognize that and tailor their responses to the argument he is actually making, in the spirit of "colleagues trying to reason out the truth together". I think grellas comment was tactless. He used his karma to publish a largely meta argument, ignoring the debate as well as the link and not responding to anyone else afterwards. This is…

I agree with you. I think grellas argument is so flawed that the only reason to make it and upvote is as distraction and current best defense while the dropbox team works on something more believable. The backlash against Rice is over her actions, not her beliefs, and has a tangible connection to matter of great concern with cloud hosting - which is government sanctioned data collection.

Let's get this straight:

> I think grellas argument is so flawed that the only reason to make it and upvote is as distraction and current best defense while the dropbox team works on something more believable.

This is some kind of conspiracy to distract HN, because... DropBox fears HN? And grellas has been hired to carry it out by commenting?

Re: Drop Dropbox

#976

Post by greendestiny »

davidw wrote: post #975
greendestiny wrote: post #934

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. I think grellas argument is so flawed that the only reason to make it and upvote is as distraction and current best defense while the dropbox team works on something more believable. The backlash against Rice is over her actions, not her beliefs, and has a tangible connection to matter of great concern with cloud hosting - which is government sanctioned data collection.

Let's get this straight: > I think grellas argument is so flawed that the only reason to make it and upvote is as distraction and current best defense while the dropbox team works on something more believable. This is some kind of conspiracy to distract HN, because... DropBox fears HN? And grellas has been hired to carry it out by commenting?

No I think people like to defend things associated with people or startup incubators they like. So in a sea of negativity they latch onto any argument in favour of the thing despite its lack of merit.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#977

Post by davidw »

greendestiny wrote: post #976
davidw wrote: post #975

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's get this straight: > I think grellas argument is so flawed that the only reason to make it and upvote is as distraction and current best defense while the dropbox team works on something more believable. This is some kind of conspiracy to distract HN, because... DropBox fears HN? And grellas has been hired to carry it out by commenting?

No I think people like to defend things associated with people or startup incubators they like. So in a sea of negativity they latch onto any argument in favour of the thing despite its lack of merit.

Having regularly read and appreciated grellas' comments here, I think he is responsible for some of the best and most interesting comments on this site. I have no reason to believe his reasoning is not sincere.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#978

Post by tripzilch »

EliAndrewC wrote: post #941
elbear wrote: post #919

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way is it harmful to society?

grellas makes two basic arguments in the post I replied to, which I will attempt to summarize: 1) Refusing employment based on beliefs has been historically bad, e.g. Christians refusing to hire or do business with Jews, and blacklists for suspected Communists. Such things are in fact SO bad that they outweigh any/all good that might be done by applying such filters in cases where we feel they're justified. 2) Startu…

Your first point is why I find grellas comment misleading and detracting from the real issues. Those two examples you name, as well as the examples grellas names, are not actually based on beliefs but are based on group membership (or suspected group membership). That would be wrong and I'd agree.

However, this argument is misleading because the featured article is very particular about specific actions by this person and dismissing them based on those grounds, not because Rice belongs to any particular group and attributing all properties and beliefs of that group to her. For instance, while she is responsible for war crimes and torture, we're not automatically assuming she holds the same beliefs as, say, Pol Pot.

Same goes for Brendan Eich, though donating $1k to anti-gay legislation is arguably somewhat less evil than actively supporting and authorizing the torture regime of the world's biggest military power. There's really not a lot of wiggle room there.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#979

Post by ericd »

yypark wrote: post #922
supersystem wrote: post #899

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since grellas' post was an argument about question #1, I hope people are able to recognize that and tailor their responses to the argument he is actually making, in the spirit of "colleagues trying to reason out the truth together". I think grellas comment was tactless. He used his karma to publish a largely meta argument, ignoring the debate as well as the link and not responding to anyone else afterwards. This is…

It might sound tactless because it breaks down the illusion of moral superiority that most sides in a political battle believe they have. In general, people don't like being told they may in fact be wrong, they want to believe their side is unique, superior, and the other side is committing crimes against humanity/unborn children/whatever it may be. When a huge proportion of the broader population (not necessarily HN…

This is such an unbelievably good post. Bravo, and welcome to HN, if you're actually new here.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#980

Post by Piskvorrr »

aw3c2 wrote: post #604
Piskvorrr wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As opposed to...Dropbox?!? (Recap: "Dropbox substitute?" "What about BTSync?" "Meh, isn't open")

Sorry, I took the comment on its own. I do not use Dropbox. I have not found a usable free sync solution so I am stuck with unison.

Ah, then I have misunderstood; I apologize.
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