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Re: Drop Dropbox

#911

Post by vacri »

steven2012 wrote: post #801
ameen wrote: post #790

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opposing gay marriages and killing people aren't the same, and the magnitude at which both of these events took place is also important. Prop 8 was a legal process, you could've successfully opposed it (and it was). But going to war isn't something the public could vote on. Also Eich's donation was $1000, Rice's War was several billions and massively haemorrhaged US Economy.

The magnitude is absolutely irrelevant. Hypocrisy is hypocrisy, and the core issue here is whether or not people have the right to boycott a product over the beliefs or actions of the people who are associated with the product. If I believe that cars are causing global warming, I have the right to boycott the uses of cars and to publicize it. If I believe that eating meat is wrong, I have the right to boycott meat an…

Eich's issue was irrelevant to the Mozilla product line

Rice's issue (about data, not the others) is directly related to the core of Dropbox's product.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#912

Post by abalone »

MarkPNeyer wrote: post #698
janj wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starting an unnecessary war is a big deal. Denying due process and torturing detainees is a big deal. The Patriot Act was one of the most un-American acts of Congress. Rice had a significant role in destroying the values I once thought were vitally important in claiming American exceptionalism. We can never get that back. We are now a country that starts unnecessary wars, tortures detainees and denies due process and…

> I am proud to have always been vocally against the war, torture and the Patriot Act. I will continue to oppose the people who led these efforts and oppose anything they are involved with, staying true to my own personal values requires this. I hope this extends to opposing the Obama administration, which has continued and extended war, torture, and the patriot act. If the tech community dumps anyone from any party…

You're equating

A. a campaign donation

and

B. starting an unjust war that killed hundreds of thousands and destroyed a society

Re: Drop Dropbox

#913

Post by vacri »

ryguytilidie wrote: post #493
pvnick wrote: post #253

I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, I absolutely agree with most of the opposition to Condi Rice wrt the illegal war, warrantless wiretaps, torture, etc. On the other hand, I threw a hissy fit over the opposition to Eich based on his beliefs. I'm not sure how I can oppose Rice while standing up for Eich without inconsistency. Anybody else feel conflicted and have some insight? I'm still probably goin…

"But I don't know that I can go on the same kind of crusade for which I faulted the Eich lynch mob." This is so insanely hyperbolic I don't even know where to begin. We're now using the term "lynch mob" for a situation where people a) boycotted the product and b) wrote a lot of things about how what Brandon did was wrong and how he is the wrong choice for CEO. So, lynch mob, which means, "a mob that kills a person fo…

There is an irony in accusing someone else of hyperbole, but demanding that the literal interpretation of their terms be used.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#914

Post by yypark »

yypark wrote: post #837
sebular wrote: post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment and the fact that it's the top-voted one are disturbing in what they imply about the moral attitudes of this community. Everything you've so passionately stated with such deep concern can be summarized as, "Let's not persecute people in the startup world for their political beliefs." I would agree with that statement, however it is entirely irrelevant in this case-- the first three items in that article…

When does something turn from "political" into "criminal"? Crimes are defined by politics - thus war criminal and international law are completely political. Similar to how someone can say "Aaron Swartz's case is not political at all, he violated criminal hacking laws!" And yet at some point, politicians decided to enact the laws that criminalized his behavior. Similarly, someone has to set the laws for war as well,…

The corollary is also that Rice (and many other figures in recent, post-WWII American wars) remain highly controversial, but the moral condemnation is not universal the way it is for certain other wars. In the SF Bay Area tech scene, there does seem to be a seriously strong consensus - and Obama is also negatively regarded when it comes to issues of continuing wars, wiretapping, etc. but generally not as strongly

Re: Drop Dropbox

#915

Post by facepalm »

deveac wrote: post #543
facepalm wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gay marriage really isn't such an obvious case. Marriage means subventions by the government. So I suppose you could argue that the subventions are really for promoting families with the ultimate goal of having children. Even though gay families can adopt, you could argue that promoting gay marriage does not bring more children into the world. Not saying that is my opinion, or that marriage is currently perfectly des…

>It's not a question of denying people the right to be together, "Being together"? That isn't the right gay Americans are asking to have equal access to.

You haven't read what I wrote, have you?

Re: Drop Dropbox

#917

Post by icarus_drowning »

bguthrie wrote: post #699
grellas wrote: post #538

Think about what it means to the HN culture to have a subject that normally would have been flagged out of existence as overtly political suddenly be featured front and center in the apparent belief that ideological purity is now a litmus test for who can serve on a board of directors in the startup world. In a free society, people can unite in their business ventures even though they might be far apart in how they v…

Think about what it means to the HN culture to have a subject that normally would have been flagged out of existence as overtly political suddenly be featured front and center It means that a bunch of people who once thought they were somehow above or apart from politics find that they are not, and that the things that happen in the world constitute news of real interest to hackers. That's growth. It's also misleadin…

It means that a bunch of people who once thought they were somehow above or apart from politics find that they are not, and that the things that happen in the world constitute news of real interest to hackers. That's growth.

Unless the views that "unite" them are repulsive. If Rice's viewpoints were the polar opposite and we were all jumping on the bandwagon to boycott dropbox because they didn't support torture enough, would that be "growth"?

Of course not.

You don't like Rice's views on this issue, and want to convince people-- including the HN community-- that she was wrong on this issue, and that her views on other issues (warantless wiretaps, etc.) are dangerous for a business like dropbox. Moreover, you don't want to support dropbox now that Rice is a board member. Fine. But to claim that just because we all (or at least most of us) disagree with her views, that in and of itself means that we're "growing" as a community is genuinely dangerous-- because at some point, most of us are going to be wrong about something, and arguing on ideological merit is going to be the only thing that can "save" us. Simply saying that "we all agree, and that's growth" will just ensure that we're all wrong forever.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#918

Post by nickff »

kenrikm wrote: post #788
clarky07 wrote: post #733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making this a R vs D thing is silly. Vietnam was Democrat president. Obama has extended our current wars. Most of our wars have had public support at the beginning, and lost them over time. And as you noted, we've also been instrumental in necessary wars to everyone's benefit. Hindsight is great and all, but sometimes whether or not a war is necessary can't be seen at the outset. If Saddam had a nuke (and believe me…

WW2 Democrat, Korea Republican, Vietnam Democrat, Grenada and Panama Republican (if they even count), First Gulf War Republican, Kosovo Democrat, Second gulf war / Afghanistan Republican. To me it seems that there is not clear pattern, the most I can get out of it "if there is a president, then we might go to war"

Truman was the president when the US stepped in to help South Korea, and he was a Democrat, not a Republican.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#919

Post by elbear »

EliAndrewC wrote: post #901
supersystem wrote: post #899

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since grellas' post was an argument about question #1, I hope people are able to recognize that and tailor their responses to the argument he is actually making, in the spirit of "colleagues trying to reason out the truth together". I think grellas comment was tactless. He used his karma to publish a largely meta argument, ignoring the debate as well as the link and not responding to anyone else afterwards. This is…

grellas' argument doesn't sit right with me either, but I disagree that his argument was tactless or intended to derail anything. When grellas writes: > Principle is more important here than a particular outcome. What happens with Ms. Rice is not the issue here. I get why you'd see that as trying to derail more specific discussion, and why you'd disagree with that statement in general. However, I see it as part of a…

In what way is it harmful to society?

Re: Drop Dropbox

#920

Post by Freaky »

higherpurpose wrote: post #142
antonius wrote: post #4

When looking to grow our board, we sought out a leader who could help us expand our global footprint. Condoleezza sure left a global footprint in the Middle East alright. Hate do this Dropbox, but time for me to move on. Edit: Suggestions for a Dropbox substitute?

Mediafire also offers 1 TB for $5 (first month is $2.5 or something). https://www.mediafire.com/upgrade/ If you want something with strong security and privacy, there's https://spideroak.com/

It's 50% off if you pay yearly, plus 2 months free on top. $25 for the year, not bad. Not exactly comparable, but still.
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