Drop Dropbox • Hacker News Board

Re: Drop Dropbox

#861

Post by jshen » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 8:27 PM UTC

jnbiche wrote: post #404

jshen wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bush administration asserted that it could detain anyone without a trial and torture them. This is not equivalent to any average administration as you implied.

Compared to the Obama administration's assertion that it can kill any American it wants without trial? Here's are reports on this policy from two traditionally liberal news organizations (the conservative ones are equally damning): 1. http://www.salon.com/2010/04/07/assassinations_2/ 2. http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/09/obama-assassin... Don't get me wrong, I believe the Bush administration was horrific.…

I was replying to the implication that the bush admin was just your typical political sin of power. Why you viewed that through a partisan lense I do not know.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#862

Post by foobarqux » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 8:28 PM UTC

Uhhrrr wrote: post #707

foobarqux wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Downing street memos, Rumsfeld memos, the Project for a New American Century Report, Hans Blix assertions that there were no WMDs, historical acts of aggression in other countries, subsequent acts of aggression in other countries, and post-hoc assertions that WMDs were not the main reason for invasion, among other evidence all show that the invasion of Iraq was geo-strategic and not primarily based on disarming Iraq…

Eh, there's no way that Rumsfeld memo is "How to start a war". Note that the first reason depends on Saddam attacking the Kurds - not very actionable for the US!

> Eh, there's no way that Rumsfeld memo is "How to start a war

It literally says "How start" meaning "how [to] start [Iraq war]".

> Note that the first reason depends on Saddam attacking the Kurds - not very actionable for the US!

Sure it is. Arming and supporting the Kurds to conduct instigating attacks or incursions is just one way.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#863

Post by camus2 » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 8:28 PM UTC

loupeabody wrote: post #257

I find the explicit images of war and torture very distasteful. Especially alongside a goofy illustration of Condoleezza's head in the Dropbox logo. There are certainly more appropriate ways to communicate your message besides FUD.

well here is more images for you ( NSFW )

http://www.asiantribune.com/news/2009/10/03/rape-iraqi-women...

so what's the FUD is all about again?

Re: Drop Dropbox

#864

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 8:29 PM UTC

foobarqux wrote: post #603

shawn-furyan wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the article you're linking to, and I don't see any allegations that the 900+ false statements were known to be false by the administration at the time[1]. This particular article certainly doesn't meet my standard for "[showing conclusively] that they lied, that they lied knowingly, and that that they lied a lot". Perhaps that evidence exists in another form, but I think you strengthen the GPs argument by pres…

Downing street memos, Rumsfeld memos, the Project for a New American Century Report, Hans Blix assertions that there were no WMDs, historical acts of aggression in other countries, subsequent acts of aggression in other countries, and post-hoc assertions that WMDs were not the main reason for invasion, among other evidence all show that the invasion of Iraq was geo-strategic and not primarily based on disarming Iraq…

[deleted]

Re: Drop Dropbox

#865

Post by davidkellis » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 8:32 PM UTC

captainmojo wrote: post #535

davidkellis wrote: post #231

Why is this on HN? This is just a political powder keg. Anyone who agrees with the article will upvote it and any comment supporting it. Anyone who disagrees with the article will downvote it and any comment opposing it. The only "benefit" to this post is that the publicity given to the grievance (whether real or imagined) will sway Dropbox leadership to drop Condi. Whether that's a good thing or not for Dropbox as a…

Powder keg or not, a Privacy concern would certainly influence my decision of whether or not to use their APIs in my software, especially on behalf of consumers. They've been trying to attract developers to their API, and they just lost my interest.

I don't see the privacy concern. Is the fear that Condi is going to persuade Dropbox leadership to open the doors to govt. snooping?

Re: Drop Dropbox

#866

Post by Turing_Machine » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 8:33 PM UTC

chrisBob wrote: post #782

pauleastlund wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one is proposing laws about who can hold given positions. There is no free speech angle here. This is a total straw man. The comment you are responding to does not mention "free speech" once. The point is: you are part of a significant, vocal group that is enjoying using its clout to blackball public figures from the tech industry over certain political views that are only held by a minority in tech. Should any…

Also "free speech" means something specific: It means the government can't make laws limiting your speech. It does not say I have to do anything to support that "right". As long as I am not violating another law (ie racial prejudice) I can fight or limit your "free speech" as much as I want.

You are confusing free speech and the First Amendment. The First Amendment protects free speech against the U.S. government, but governmental control is not the only aspect of free speech. Free speech is a larger issue.

Edit: if what you are saying were true, there wouldn't be any free speech issues in any country besides the United States.

Clearly that is not the case.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#867

Post by morgante » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 8:36 PM UTC

I wholeheartedly agree with this cause, but think the framing is terrible. It's clouding the picture by making things political when they don't need to be.

Rice's support of the Iraq war does not matter. Dropbox will not be starting wars or having anything to do with them, besides possibly getting lucrative DoD contracts.

Rice's position on torture does not matter. Dropbox has no reason or likelihood of torture.

Rice's involvement with Chevron does not matter. If anything, this is evidence that she might be an okay choice.

The only thing which matters is her position on warrantless wiretapping. It's not political. I'm just not comfortable having someone make key privacy decisions who, on the record, doesn't believe in my right to privacy.

Even if (bizarrely) you think mass surveillance might be acceptable, you should oppose Rice being on the board. Our system works best when there's an adversarial relationship between actors—when the government comes knocking, corporations will at least ask a couple questions about why, even just to verify this is a legitimate government request. Having someone who designed, and firmly believes in, the surveillance state on BOTH sides of the table destroys that.

So, yes, drop Dropbox.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#868

Post by peteretep » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 8:36 PM UTC

EliAndrewC wrote: post #839

grellas wrote: post #538

Think about what it means to the HN culture to have a subject that normally would have been flagged out of existence as overtly political suddenly be featured front and center in the apparent belief that ideological purity is now a litmus test for who can serve on a board of directors in the startup world. In a free society, people can unite in their business ventures even though they might be far apart in how they v…

Debates on Brendan Eich and Condoleezza Rice seem to boil down three separate questions: 1) Is there any belief or action not directly related to someone's job that should disqualify them from their position? 2) If the answer to #1 is yes, does this specific issue cross that threshold? 3) Does the answer to #1 change based on their position within a company, e.g. a regular employee vs a CEO? I've seen well-reasoned a…

Mozilla is a community with a corporation attached. That community (as with most communities) is built on a set of shared values, and arguably needs to be led by someone sharing those values.

Dropbox is a company who exists to enrich their shareholders, and has customers, not community members.

That's the fundamental difference here.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#869

Post by clarky07 » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 8:37 PM UTC

tibiapejagala wrote: post #677

viggity wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wiretapping members of the UN Security Council You realize that is part of the reason we have the NSA, right? Only in a fantasy world do the other members not attempt to spy on the US. The reason why the NSA spying issue is wrong is because they were violating the consitutional rights of US Citizens. The German Chancellor is not a US Citizen and we have every reason to spy on her, the same goes for every other coun…

TIL only US citizens are people

No, today you learned it's only illegal for the US gov't to spy on US citizens. Spying isn't rape or murder. It's a thing that gov't does to know what's going on behind their backs. Do we have a problem with spying on Russia or China? No. Just France and Germany. Why?

Re: Drop Dropbox

#870

Post by hackuser » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 8:37 PM UTC

MarkPNeyer wrote: post #698

janj wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starting an unnecessary war is a big deal. Denying due process and torturing detainees is a big deal. The Patriot Act was one of the most un-American acts of Congress. Rice had a significant role in destroying the values I once thought were vitally important in claiming American exceptionalism. We can never get that back. We are now a country that starts unnecessary wars, tortures detainees and denies due process and…

> I am proud to have always been vocally against the war, torture and the Patriot Act. I will continue to oppose the people who led these efforts and oppose anything they are involved with, staying true to my own personal values requires this. I hope this extends to opposing the Obama administration, which has continued and extended war, torture, and the patriot act. If the tech community dumps anyone from any party…

> I hope this extends to opposing the Obama administration, which has continued and extended war, torture, and the patriot act.

I agree people should oppose wrong-doing by both parties and not be partisan about it, but not all sins are the same and they do not all require the same response. I don't Obama and Bush are the same, unless the criteria is a binary has/not sinned (in which case all Presidents -- and you and I -- are the same).

I do agree that Obama has done many wrongs.