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Re: Drop Dropbox

#721

Post by alecco »

Dropbox board and CEO decided this was a good move. They know it will alienate the original userbase, the tech savy, the first movers. In exchange they'll access old money, the old school corporations and government agencies.

They decided to screw the current userbase for a new userbase. It's over, just get over it. The maximum you can do now is refuse to use Dropbox.

It's sad how tech is getting to a cycle of befriend-and-switch on the community. This will surely make people more cynical and will make it much harder for upcoming startups. This is the highest cost we'll pay about this new trend.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#722

Post by humanrebar »

joshstrange wrote: post #589
cmiles74 wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this is different precisely because we aren't necessarily using "political, social, or religious tests as criteria". In this case it's pretty nearly the polar opposite: we're using her past public performance in past professional roles. No one is digging into her private history, quite the opposite; people are looking into past statements that she's made to the public (at hearings, in newspaper interviews,…

Exactly, no one is saying "If you are a Republican you shouldn't be on the DB board" they are saying "If you support warrantless wiretapping and were an accomplice in lying to the American public in order to start a war then you shouldn't be on the DB board". This isn't because of her political affiliation but because of what she did.

People are saying exactly that about Eich, Prop 8, and Mozilla though. Saying that it's a category error to equate Eich and Rice is fair. Saying that "no one is saying..." is a bit off.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#723

Post by panarky »

bguthrie wrote: post #699
grellas wrote: post #538

Think about what it means to the HN culture to have a subject that normally would have been flagged out of existence as overtly political suddenly be featured front and center in the apparent belief that ideological purity is now a litmus test for who can serve on a board of directors in the startup world. In a free society, people can unite in their business ventures even though they might be far apart in how they v…

Think about what it means to the HN culture to have a subject that normally would have been flagged out of existence as overtly political suddenly be featured front and center It means that a bunch of people who once thought they were somehow above or apart from politics find that they are not, and that the things that happen in the world constitute news of real interest to hackers. That's growth. It's also misleadin…

> That's growth.

Exactly right. Everything we build has a political dimension. Every dollar or euro we spend is a vote.

We have the knowledge, we have the skills, we have the power. But as long as we compartmentalize life and work, others use our talents for evil.

The HN community has always held strong beliefs about political issues, but what did we do about it?

It's time to exercise our power and ensure our money and our skills are used for worthy purposes.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#724

Post by janj »

MarkPNeyer wrote: post #698
janj wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starting an unnecessary war is a big deal. Denying due process and torturing detainees is a big deal. The Patriot Act was one of the most un-American acts of Congress. Rice had a significant role in destroying the values I once thought were vitally important in claiming American exceptionalism. We can never get that back. We are now a country that starts unnecessary wars, tortures detainees and denies due process and…

> I am proud to have always been vocally against the war, torture and the Patriot Act. I will continue to oppose the people who led these efforts and oppose anything they are involved with, staying true to my own personal values requires this. I hope this extends to opposing the Obama administration, which has continued and extended war, torture, and the patriot act. If the tech community dumps anyone from any party…

I was fooled by Obama during his first campaign but learned quickly during his first term that he is no different. I might be a bit partisan in thinking if we had a democratic president during 9/11 we might not've gone to war with Iraq but we'll never really know.

I have simplified my life, reduced my consumption, don't own a car, grow my own food, try to avoid using Wall Street whenever possible when I do make purchases. I'm trying to create a very local life, this has allowed me to believe I'm being consistent with my core values. Oh yeah, I'm much less political than I was 10 years ago.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#725

Post by vdaniuk »

clarky07 wrote: post #719
janj wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starting an unnecessary war is a big deal. Denying due process and torturing detainees is a big deal. The Patriot Act was one of the most un-American acts of Congress. Rice had a significant role in destroying the values I once thought were vitally important in claiming American exceptionalism. We can never get that back. We are now a country that starts unnecessary wars, tortures detainees and denies due process and…

You act like someone else in her position would have done something different. Everyone hated Bush. Spending too much money, unnecessary war, over reaching surveillance. Obama will be our hope and change! Yay! Hmm, spending significantly more money, continuing unnecessary wars, and reaching significantly further into surveillance. When the war started 64% of Americans were in favor of it. Sure it turns out they didn'…

Incredibly smart, talented, connected and absolutely unethical person.

I am boycotting Dropbox not because Rice is on the board, but because the board voted in favor of her joining. After this I simply don't trust any high ranking official at Dropbox to be the user of their products.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#726

Post by aioprisan »

hackinthebochs wrote: post #600
aioprisan wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What evidence do you have that there was fabricated evidence to justify the war? I'm not saying it wasn't faulty, but all the parties has closed door access to all the intelligence to make a decision. Just because we don't like the decision retroactively doesn't mean it was done on purpose, but rather due to mistakes being made. Not to say that's more comforting, just that they are different things.

I don't have citations off hand, but from memory: 1. Cheney strongly pressured the CIA to discover a smoking gun for Iraq WMDs 2. CIA produced a document that they themselves questioned the authenticity of (the "yellow cake" purchase document) 3. Bush/Cheney ran with that, ignoring the caveats of the intelligence and trumpeting it as the smoking gun 4. Later discovered that the document was fabricated So while I have…

> Senators are shown evidence, they are not involved in the process of gathering and vetting that evidence. If this process is interfered with then the conclusions are worthless.

Senators can request additional information on the processes that is shares in closed doors. There is also the intelligence oversight committee that can investigate those actions and bring all the parties involved to actually testify. The fact that not many members of Congress questioned what was presented ultimately rests solely on their shoulders, since they can choose to request more information and open inquiries.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#727

Post by joshstrange »

mcherm wrote: post #342

Attacking companies for working with leaders who happen to have a conservative political viewpoint is simply unacceptable. For goodness sake, Condoleezza Rice was the US Secretary of State! There are a substantial number of people who found her to be an excellent leader -- including at least 2/3 of the US Senate. I am quite liberal, but I do not believe in blacklisting people because of their political beliefs. At on…

>> Attacking companies for working with leaders who happen to have a conservative political viewpoint is simply unacceptable.

Yes it would be if her "viewpoint" was all that was brought into question but it's not. She assisted in lying to the American public to start a war and she has come out multiple times in support for warrantless wiretapping. This isn't about what she thinks or which political party she belongs to it's about what she DID.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#728

Post by sergiosgc »

vdaniuk wrote: post #704
MarkPNeyer wrote: post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a logical device. it is not always a logical fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

Thank you for educating me, I didn't know that. However, I feel that in this case, my point still stands.

My comment only stated that responding to a long term analysis of this issue with a short term analysis is wrong because, if this is a slippery slope, it can only be detected with a long term view.

I can't see your point. Which is natural, as you haven't explained it.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#729

Post by panarky »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #690
grellas wrote: post #538

Think about what it means to the HN culture to have a subject that normally would have been flagged out of existence as overtly political suddenly be featured front and center in the apparent belief that ideological purity is now a litmus test for who can serve on a board of directors in the startup world. In a free society, people can unite in their business ventures even though they might be far apart in how they v…

I find your line of reasoning very strange. It's also a red herring. This is not about simply holding "different political views". In fact, the article doesn't mention political ideology (except to dismiss it as its rationale). This is about actual actions taken, some of which resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, torture, and the destruction of fundamental American principles. So, your comment,…

Yes! Let's not fall for the false equivalence of competing ideologies. Unnecessarily killing and injuring innocents is evil, full stop.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#730

Post by nollidge »

JonFish85 wrote: post #609
Zigurd wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One might say "This is different" because trust in US products and services and tens to hundreds of billions of dollars are at stake. As for the "politics" of it, "Are you, or have you ever been part of the surveillance state?" is not a question about one's political views. It is more like the question in Germany "Were you a Stasi officer or informant?"

To be fair, the Mozilla thing was much more the "Are you now, or have you ever supported a political issue we don't agree with?" in nature. I'm not saying I agree with it, but that's the same type of question...

Except that question was asked by free citizens, not by a government.
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