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Drop Dropbox

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Re: Drop Dropbox

#701

Post by MarkPNeyer »

vdaniuk wrote: post #678
sergiosgc wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big deal as it may be, the parent comment was placing the discussion in a plane you totally missed in your response. The type of blackballing practiced by this campaign is similar to the kind of blackballing that ousted Brendan Eich. It is also a slippery slope. Slippery slopes are dangerous. At each step of the way, you can reason about your present decision and easily justify it. Add all the steps and the picture i…

Slippery slope is also a logical fallacy, so there's that.

it's a logical device. it is not always a logical fallacy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

Re: Drop Dropbox

#702

Post by rodgerd »

sebular wrote: post #665
grellas wrote: post #538

Think about what it means to the HN culture to have a subject that normally would have been flagged out of existence as overtly political suddenly be featured front and center in the apparent belief that ideological purity is now a litmus test for who can serve on a board of directors in the startup world. In a free society, people can unite in their business ventures even though they might be far apart in how they v…

Your comment and the fact that it's the top-voted one are disturbing in what they imply about the moral attitudes of this community. Everything you've so passionately stated with such deep concern can be summarized as, "Let's not persecute people in the startup world for their political beliefs." I would agree with that statement, however it is entirely irrelevant in this case-- the first three items in that article…

> Your comment and the fact that it's the top-voted one are disturbing in what they imply about the moral attitudes of this community.

I can only presume a large chunk of the SV and HN commentariat would have considered the most important thing about the 50s and 60s black boycotts of segregated businesses in the US south was the "victimisation of business owners."

Re: Drop Dropbox

#703

Post by eli »

itistoday2 wrote: post #681
janj wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starting an unnecessary war is a big deal. Denying due process and torturing detainees is a big deal. The Patriot Act was one of the most un-American acts of Congress. Rice had a significant role in destroying the values I once thought were vitally important in claiming American exceptionalism. We can never get that back. We are now a country that starts unnecessary wars, tortures detainees and denies due process and…

Thank you. You rightfully point out that her past actions remain relevant today, and that attempting to dismiss them by labeling them as "merely political viewpoints" does a great disservice to everybody. This woman is directly and indirectly responsible for destroying hundreds of thousands of lives. That should somehow reflect on her resumé, shouldn't it? Now she's being placed in charge of people's personal data. T…

Shouldn't crimes be tried in courts and not online petitions? Does a majority of users get to decide if you've done something wrong enough to disqualify you from a board? A vocal minority?

Re: Drop Dropbox

#704

Post by vdaniuk »

MarkPNeyer wrote: post #701
vdaniuk wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slippery slope is also a logical fallacy, so there's that.

it's a logical device. it is not always a logical fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

Thank you for educating me, I didn't know that. However, I feel that in this case, my point still stands.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#705

Post by Zelphyr »

For those comparing this to the ouster of Brendan Eich: It seems to me there is a distinction in that he, despite his ignorant views, was able to keep them separate from his work.

Making this country less free and more war-like (e.g.; less safe) WAS her work and she did it all too well. Her ties to the NSA alone are serious cause for concern. Do we really want someone in a position of power at a place that stores massive amounts of (supposedly) private user data?

I already removed 99.9% of my data from Dropbox after the NSA revelations with the assumption that the latter had access regardless of whether Dropbox was complicit. I assumed they weren't. With former Secretary Rice on the board I now assume Dropbox will become complicit and so I will delete my account altogether.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#706

Post by mikeash »

dctoedt wrote: post #700
mikeash wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some severe problems with your point. Specifically: (A) We know what information was available at the time and they clearly did not make the best decision they could. There was a consistent focus on information that supported the desired outcome and away from information that didn't. (B) Good intentions and $5 will buy you a coffee at Starbucks. Hitler genuinely wanted to do a good job. (C) Irrelevant. If o…

> Nuclear weapons are hard to build True, but I said "building -- or buying " nuclear weapons. See generally http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Qadeer_Khan#North_Korea.2... > Even if Iraq had managed to obtain nuclear weapons, they had no way to deliver them anywhere. The possibility of a nuclear weapon concealed in a container aboard a cargo ship was a non-trivial concern back then. See also http://en.wikipedia.org/…

It was clear that none had been purchased or were being purchased soon, either. Again, there's no rush. If and when it happens, then invade.

Even the most strident proponents of invasion were talking about buying yellowcake, not ready-to-go nuclear warheads. That wasn't put forward as a possibility by anybody.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#707

Post by Uhhrrr »

foobarqux wrote: post #603
shawn-furyan wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the article you're linking to, and I don't see any allegations that the 900+ false statements were known to be false by the administration at the time[1]. This particular article certainly doesn't meet my standard for "[showing conclusively] that they lied, that they lied knowingly, and that that they lied a lot". Perhaps that evidence exists in another form, but I think you strengthen the GPs argument by pres…

Downing street memos, Rumsfeld memos, the Project for a New American Century Report, Hans Blix assertions that there were no WMDs, historical acts of aggression in other countries, subsequent acts of aggression in other countries, and post-hoc assertions that WMDs were not the main reason for invasion, among other evidence all show that the invasion of Iraq was geo-strategic and not primarily based on disarming Iraq…

Eh, there's no way that Rumsfeld memo is "How to start a war". Note that the first reason depends on Saddam attacking the Kurds - not very actionable for the US!

Re: Drop Dropbox

#708

Post by nickff »

usingpond wrote: post #655
nickff wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The extent of black-listing is quite remarkable; especially for a group of people so emphatic in describing themselves as 'tolerant'.

I fail to see how it's a black-list if the means of ejection is extremely public and based on pure market motivation? Conservatives with awful views tend to get "freedom of speech" and "freedom from social and business consequences" mixed up a lot.

First off, I am no conservative.

I would contend that the Hollywood blacklist of the 1940s and 1950s is comparable with what is we see here; then as now, a group of people with certain political and social views are being excluded and ejected from jobs solely because of their activities outside of the job being denied to them.[1] Those blacklisted in the 1940s and 1950s had "freedom of speech", but not "freedom from social and business consequences". It is difficult to make a principled distinction between what we see happening now, and the 'McCarthy-ist' wave of the 20th century, which is oft described as ideological intolerance.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_blacklist

Re: Drop Dropbox

#709

Post by stingraycharles »

janj wrote: post #598
grellas wrote: post #538

Think about what it means to the HN culture to have a subject that normally would have been flagged out of existence as overtly political suddenly be featured front and center in the apparent belief that ideological purity is now a litmus test for who can serve on a board of directors in the startup world. In a free society, people can unite in their business ventures even though they might be far apart in how they v…

Starting an unnecessary war is a big deal. Denying due process and torturing detainees is a big deal. The Patriot Act was one of the most un-American acts of Congress. Rice had a significant role in destroying the values I once thought were vitally important in claiming American exceptionalism. We can never get that back. We are now a country that starts unnecessary wars, tortures detainees and denies due process and…

Ok, I really hate so say this, but this has hardly been the first time the US has gone into an unnecessary war. While you have also entered necessary wars, for which we, the other western countries, are truly grateful, you simply cannot say that with the Bush administration this is the first time something like this happens.

For me, an anonymous person living in the Netherlands, it feels like these things happen whenever a republican president is elected. The world expects this, goes along with it, and personally I'm afraid of what will happen when the first republican president post-Obama is elected.

Giving dr Reece this much heat is unfair and missing Grellas' very important point: just like freedom of speech is very important to a free press, freedom of political beliefs are very important in a free market.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#710

Post by interpares »

grellas wrote: post #538

Think about what it means to the HN culture to have a subject that normally would have been flagged out of existence as overtly political suddenly be featured front and center in the apparent belief that ideological purity is now a litmus test for who can serve on a board of directors in the startup world. In a free society, people can unite in their business ventures even though they might be far apart in how they v…

>Think about what it means to the HN culture to have a subject that normally would have been flagged out of existence as overtly political suddenly be featured front and center

We've all been learning that large technology companies cannot escape politics -- whether it's Edward Snowden's revelations or Turkey's ban on Twitter. Seeing this conversation here may have less to do with a changing Hacker News culture and more to do with a realization that technology & politics are intertwined.

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