Drop Dropbox • Hacker News Board

Re: Drop Dropbox

#681

Post by itistoday2 » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 5:32 PM UTC

janj wrote: post #598

grellas wrote: post #538

Think about what it means to the HN culture to have a subject that normally would have been flagged out of existence as overtly political suddenly be featured front and center in the apparent belief that ideological purity is now a litmus test for who can serve on a board of directors in the startup world. In a free society, people can unite in their business ventures even though they might be far apart in how they v…

Starting an unnecessary war is a big deal. Denying due process and torturing detainees is a big deal. The Patriot Act was one of the most un-American acts of Congress. Rice had a significant role in destroying the values I once thought were vitally important in claiming American exceptionalism. We can never get that back. We are now a country that starts unnecessary wars, tortures detainees and denies due process and…

Thank you. You rightfully point out that her past actions remain relevant today, and that attempting to dismiss them by labeling them as "merely political viewpoints" does a great disservice to everybody.

This woman is directly and indirectly responsible for destroying hundreds of thousands of lives. That should somehow reflect on her resumé, shouldn't it?

Now she's being placed in charge of people's personal data. That's not just bad politics, it's bad ethics, and it's bad business.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#682

Post by vdaniuk » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 5:32 PM UTC

rosser wrote: post #674

pauleastlund wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one is proposing laws about who can hold given positions. There is no free speech angle here. This is a total straw man. The comment you are responding to does not mention "free speech" once. The point is: you are part of a significant, vocal group that is enjoying using its clout to blackball public figures from the tech industry over certain political views that are only held by a minority in tech. Should any…

How exactly is my making the choice of whether or not to continue using a service "blackballing" someone?

It's not. Simple as that.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#683

Post by orochi235 » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 5:32 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #592

orochi235 wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a critical distinction between voting with your own wallet and launching an (anonymous) campaign to ensure someone never works again.

What's the "critical distinction" between voting with your own wallet and trying to convince other people to vote with theirs too? Seems like it's just "vote with your wallet" plus "free speech".

To be clear, I'm not trying to say this sort of action should be illegal. Just that I think it's tasteless, shortsighted, and somewhat hypocritical to do anonymously, given that it specifically targets an individual. Which is the other element of this that I find so abhorrent: it's one thing to target an idea, or campaign against someone running for public office. It's another to follow a private citizen around for the rest of his or her life, making demands of anyone who attempts to hire that person. It seems, well, vindictive.

I think I mentioned above that I disagree with basically every decision Dr. Rice ever made while acting as a public official. The Iraq war was a huge disaster, and that was obvious before it even started. But there's a reason we have legal doctrines like qualified immunity: it's detrimental to a public official's ability to perform his or her duties if he or she has to view every decision as a question of personal liability.

Upon further reflection, this isn't nearly as bad as last week's Mozilla witch hunt. You could probably make a legitimate argument in the context of privacy and government surveillance. But given the "success" of that purge, I'm worried that we'll be seeing three more of these campaigns every week. The fact that I've taken a karma beating for (completely earnest) posts I've made in this thread just reinforces my fear that we're becoming a community that finds it harder and harder to brook dissent. And I really thought the kind of person that reads HN was smart enough to see the inherent dangers in that.

Thanks for not calling me an idiot this time. Really made my day.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#684

Post by Gracana » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 5:33 PM UTC

forrestthewoods wrote: post #554

grellas wrote: post #538

Think about what it means to the HN culture to have a subject that normally would have been flagged out of existence as overtly political suddenly be featured front and center in the apparent belief that ideological purity is now a litmus test for who can serve on a board of directors in the startup world. In a free society, people can unite in their business ventures even though they might be far apart in how they v…

People are increasingly incapable of living and working with people with whom they deeply disagree. Quite frankly I consider that behavior childish and immature. Unfortunately it appears that we are living in a world full of children. I am not looking forward to the future where no one shares any opinion they may or may not have due to this type of blacklisting.

Your predicted dystopian future is laughable to anyone who is outside the sphere of "straight, white, affluent, and male." That "blacklisting" already occurs all around us... Bigots and warmongers aren't the first people to have these problems.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#685

Post by sdm » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 5:33 PM UTC

grellas wrote: post #538

Think about what it means to the HN culture to have a subject that normally would have been flagged out of existence as overtly political suddenly be featured front and center in the apparent belief that ideological purity is now a litmus test for who can serve on a board of directors in the startup world. In a free society, people can unite in their business ventures even though they might be far apart in how they v…

None of what you addresses what's really going on. This is not about politics; especially for us non-Americans. Rice is integral to warrant-less wiretapping. As such she should be kept as far away from my data as possible as she has proven she simply can't be trusted with it. This is an issue of trust, don't try to make it into a political issue.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#686

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 5:34 PM UTC

thenmar wrote: post #663

pauleastlund wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one is proposing laws about who can hold given positions. There is no free speech angle here. This is a total straw man. The comment you are responding to does not mention "free speech" once. The point is: you are part of a significant, vocal group that is enjoying using its clout to blackball public figures from the tech industry over certain political views that are only held by a minority in tech. Should any…

So who decides when voicing your opinion is bullying or "blackballing" and when it's just exercising your free speech?

[deleted]

Re: Drop Dropbox

#687

Post by pkinsky » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 5:34 PM UTC

grellas wrote: post #538

Think about what it means to the HN culture to have a subject that normally would have been flagged out of existence as overtly political suddenly be featured front and center in the apparent belief that ideological purity is now a litmus test for who can serve on a board of directors in the startup world. In a free society, people can unite in their business ventures even though they might be far apart in how they v…

You state that the actions taken by Condoleeza Rice in the political sphere are not sufficient cause to blackball her. If contributing to launching a war of aggression and the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians is not sufficient cause, what is?

Surely you don't believe Eichmann should have been judged solely on his organizational skills? My 'violation' of Godwin's here is entirely intentional. This woman commited crimes against humanity different in no way other than scale from those that were prosecuted at Nuremberg.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#688

Post by beggi » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 5:35 PM UTC

I dropped Dropbox about a year ago, after realizing I only used it for backups. Although a nice feature in idea I actually never accessed my files on other computers, so I dropped Dropbox and switched to Arq backups. I recommend it for anyone with the same dilemma.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#689

Post by usingpond » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 5:35 PM UTC

macinjosh wrote: post #311

I thought Silicon Valley was dying for more women and minorities to join their ranks! Rice is both so shouldn't we all be elated?! Oh, she's a Republican? Fuck her.

Holy shit, are you implying that everything in the post about direct complicity in wiretapping, war crimes, lying to the American public, killing of civilians, and torture is just being another Republican?

Because that's the only way your post would make any kind of sense without being a clear-cut textbook strawman.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#690

Post by unclebucknasty » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 5:35 PM UTC

grellas wrote: post #538

Think about what it means to the HN culture to have a subject that normally would have been flagged out of existence as overtly political suddenly be featured front and center in the apparent belief that ideological purity is now a litmus test for who can serve on a board of directors in the startup world. In a free society, people can unite in their business ventures even though they might be far apart in how they v…

I find your line of reasoning very strange. It's also a red herring.

This is not about simply holding "different political views". In fact, the article doesn't mention political ideology (except to dismiss it as its rationale). This is about actual actions taken, some of which resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, torture, and the destruction of fundamental American principles.

So, your comment, which frames it as some sort of thought-policing or ideological litmus-testing in the startup world, is entirely misleading. Instead, what you are effectively doing is taking exception to the idea that she should face any consequences for her actions.

In fact, there are many who feel that she is guilty of war crimes and should be tried as such. No matter where you come down on that issue, it is difficult to argue that it is completely unreasonable. So, as far as Ms. Rice is concerned, perhaps she should be grateful that the consequences of her actions are so thoroughly muted as to only potentially cost her a board seat.

At the end of the day, asking people to vote with their dollars as to whether they want to support a company that has a relationship with someone whose actions they find deplorable (and possibly illegal) seems completely reasonable.