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Re: Drop Dropbox

#661
post #253

I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, I absolutely agree with most of the opposition to Condi Rice wrt the illegal war, warrantless wiretaps, torture, etc. On the other hand, I threw a hissy fit over the opposition to Eich based on his beliefs. I'm not sure how I can oppose Rice while standing up for Eich without inconsistency. Anybody else feel conflicted and have some insight? I'm still probably goin…

Are those free 100 gigs permanent or only for X amount of time? Microsoft has a similar program when you get a Surface 2, but the extra space only lasts for 2 years :\

Re: Drop Dropbox

#662
post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are increasingly incapable of living and working with people with whom they deeply disagree. Quite frankly I consider that behavior childish and immature. Unfortunately it appears that we are living in a world full of children. I am not looking forward to the future where no one shares any opinion they may or may not have due to this type of blacklisting.

The older I get the more I realize that adults don't exist. The world has always been run by children pretending to be adults.

...too true :(

Re: Drop Dropbox

#663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is proposing laws about who can hold given positions. There is no free speech angle here. What's happening on HN is exactly what our system wants to happen: answer speech you don't like with more speech! There's a lot at stake here, which is why people are reacting so forcefully. What kind of values does the SV community have? What kind of values do Y Combinator and HN have? People are coming here because HN a…

> No one is proposing laws about who can hold given positions. There is no free speech angle here. This is a total straw man. The comment you are responding to does not mention "free speech" once. The point is: you are part of a significant, vocal group that is enjoying using its clout to blackball public figures from the tech industry over certain political views that are only held by a minority in tech. Should any…

So who decides when voicing your opinion is bullying or "blackballing" and when it's just exercising your free speech?

Re: Drop Dropbox

#664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is proposing laws about who can hold given positions. There is no free speech angle here. What's happening on HN is exactly what our system wants to happen: answer speech you don't like with more speech! There's a lot at stake here, which is why people are reacting so forcefully. What kind of values does the SV community have? What kind of values do Y Combinator and HN have? People are coming here because HN a…

> No one is proposing laws about who can hold given positions. There is no free speech angle here. This is a total straw man. The comment you are responding to does not mention "free speech" once. The point is: you are part of a significant, vocal group that is enjoying using its clout to blackball public figures from the tech industry over certain political views that are only held by a minority in tech. Should any…

>over certain political views

A misrepresentation.

Dropbox is being held accountable for associating with a person who has committed certain political actions that had immediate and far-reaching negative consequences on local and global scale.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#665

Think about what it means to the HN culture to have a subject that normally would have been flagged out of existence as overtly political suddenly be featured front and center in the apparent belief that ideological purity is now a litmus test for who can serve on a board of directors in the startup world. In a free society, people can unite in their business ventures even though they might be far apart in how they v…

Your comment and the fact that it's the top-voted one are disturbing in what they imply about the moral attitudes of this community.

Everything you've so passionately stated with such deep concern can be summarized as, "Let's not persecute people in the startup world for their political beliefs."

I would agree with that statement, however it is entirely irrelevant in this case-- the first three items in that article were entirely non-political. Inciting a war on false pretenses, aiding the administration in violating the Geneva convention, and violating civil liberties via warrantless wiretap have nothing to do with Democrats vs. Republicans.

These things aren't controversial political stances, they are international crimes. People are outraged at her appointment to Dropbox because there's a large body of evidence suggesting that she's a war criminal, not because she's a Republican.

Domestically, we've somehow decided that the Iraq war is a moot point, something better left in the past. But internationally, where our former president has actually been convicted of war crimes in absentia, you can't just lamely pretend that this is just a matter of "different strokes for different folks."

It's comforting to frame this as a political issue rather than a criminal one, because the alternative is too exhausting and frightening to grapple with. Unfortunately, none of the perpetrators of these war crimes are ever likely to face charges and be tried in court. But at the very least, we can prevent these international suspects and convicted criminals from enjoying high-paying careers in the private sector.

For the record, even though I am staunchly in favor of marriage equality, I did not agree with the witch hunt surrounding Brendan Eich. That was a political issue; it should be easy for you to tell the difference.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does this have to do with D.C.'s point?

On one hand Rumsfeld et. al. implied / declared WMD were OK for Hussein to use on the Kurds, but later on removed him for allegedly hiding WMD. Since DC made the argument that Hussein should have been removed because of his WMD use, you could make the same argument about the folks in the US govt who sponsored Hussein's original use of WMD against the Kurds.

> Since DC made the argument that Hussein should have been removed because of his WMD use ....

I'm not making that argument. I cite his WMD use as a factor that went into the thinking of the political leaders back then.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#667
My thoughts as I read this article:

"She helped start the Iraq War" Ok, that was a costly war with a lousy outcome.

"She was involved in the creation of the Bush administration's torture program" Ok, torture and no due process seems pretty antithetical to a free society.

"Rice not only supports warrantless wiretaps, she authorized several" Ok, I like the 4th amendment and that weakened it even more.

"Rice was on the Board of Directors at Chevron" Omg, what did Chevron do on the same order as torture and warrantless wiretapping??? Oh, turns out nothing. Or at least this article offers no evidence. Kinda weakens the whole argument.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#668
Comparing this voicing of disapproval to Mc Carthyism is completely disingenuous, and I'm surprised that you do not know better.

In the 1950s it was the government who harassed innocent citizens. You cannot escape the government, because it has absolute power.

What we are seeing here on the other hand is a peaceful protest of free citizens exercising their right to free speech.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this offensive and foolish. People should put more effort into holding their politicians accountable while they are in office- not for settling idealogical scores after they reenter private life. We the people have no one to blame but ourselves for this. It is the voter's fault that these people are able to flourish. If we don't take our civic responsibilities seriously, then these kinds of campaigns are petty…

>Americans that act in these kind of thought police exercises instead of actually investing in the system should be ASHAMED of themselves. Is what she did illegal? Nominate politicians that will instill FBI leaders who will prosecute crimes. WORK FOR IT. Don't just talk. You need to do more than vote. Yeah, many of us did exactly that back in 2007/2008. We nominated and worked hard to promote and to get elected a pol…

> Yeah, many of us did exactly that back in 2007/2008. We nominated and worked hard to promote and to get elected a politician we believed -- based on our candidate's deeply-persuasive statements -- who would be "different". We did much more than vote. We built amazing software systems for our candidate, went door-to-door in places that almost got us shot, worked 80 hour weeks at the grass roots level, and in some cases estranged ourselves from our families. And of course we voted for him.

I think the "more than vote" really means "more than getting a candidate elected". (Or, to use Obama's own campaign catchphrase, "Be the Change".)

There may have been people who didn't understand that a bottom-to-top transformation of society with constant engagement was going to be required to realize the vision presented by the campaign even if Obama was entirely truthful on every point (a point on which I do not wish to comment either way at the moment, since its irrelevant to the point I'm making), but anyone that wasn't aware of that wasn't paying much attention to the campaign itself.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#670
post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Americans that act in these kind of thought police exercises instead of actually investing in the system should be ASHAMED of themselves. Is what she did illegal? Nominate politicians that will instill FBI leaders who will prosecute crimes. WORK FOR IT. Don't just talk. You need to do more than vote. Yeah, many of us did exactly that back in 2007/2008. We nominated and worked hard to promote and to get elected a pol…

Ok, not saying that Obama has been 100% perfect in his presidency so far, but are you really implying that he's been an awful president? He's kept a lot of his promises: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/ Not to mention major wins in healthcare, Iraq, and avoiding the major impending economic collapse that was in place when he took office. He's no saint, and I'm as pissed as anyone about the i…

>Ok, not saying that Obama has been 100% perfect in his presidency so far, but are you really implying that he's been an awful president?

Yes, yes I am. And if I thought I had any chance of convincing someone who still promotes Obama's "wins" at this point in his presidency, I'd argue it with you. But I don't.

I will leave you with one thought, which is that it's not even the blanket surveillance of the American people that's been Obama's most horrific failure, it's this:

1. http://www.salon.com/2010/04/07/assassinations_2/

2. http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/09/obama-assassin...

Finally, I'd like to point out that I'm not the one downvoting you (since you're making points I disagree with in good faith).

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