Drop Dropbox • Hacker News Board

Re: Drop Dropbox

#591

Post by bsaul » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 5:01 PM UTC

vdaniuk wrote: post #521

bsaul wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Listen, war means death. Counter-terrorism means spying and surveillance, and unfortunately very often, torture. Those are things a state does and has always been doing for the last 3000 years. The fact that we know about it, that we think about it as grown up, that we are trying to do otherwise whenever we can, and choose to prevent abuse is what makes us unique as a democratie. Now please, let me laugh at those peo…

The states of Sweden, Denmark, Holland, Finland, Belgium, Norway do no such things. US, China, Russia and others on the other hand do. So don't feed me this 3000 years crap. US is not trying to do otherwise, Rice wasn't trying to do otherwise. Dropbox board, Dropbox top management lost all my trust as soon as they agreed to work with the person responsible for lots of human suffering. It's simple really, its about th…

Sweden, Denmark and Holland have no army and no international interests or responsibility at stake.

The US took the responsibility to protect western countries since they won world war 2. That means protect their interests as well as ours (i'm European), which sometimes means remove a vicious dictator from power instead of flooding him with oil money. The fact that the public opinion has a word to say about it every 4 years is what makes a democratie.

It makes absolutely no sense to compare their foreign policy to the one of Sweden or Finland.

I'm really curious to know which company is going to be next at this horrible witch hunt. Twitter ?

Re: Drop Dropbox

#592

Post by mikeash » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 5:02 PM UTC

orochi235 wrote: post #539

mikeash wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excuse me? Not doing business with companies who do things we dislike is exactly how we settle political disputes in a civil society. Seriously, what the hell is with all these idiots lately saying that we're not supposed to even vote with our wallets anymore? I apologize for my harsh language but I'm just so flabbergasted, and it's such a stupid thing to say that I think "idiots" is justified. Do you really think th…

There's a critical distinction between voting with your own wallet and launching an (anonymous) campaign to ensure someone never works again.

What's the "critical distinction" between voting with your own wallet and trying to convince other people to vote with theirs too? Seems like it's just "vote with your wallet" plus "free speech".

Re: Drop Dropbox

#593

Post by bambax » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 5:02 PM UTC

grellas wrote: post #538

Think about what it means to the HN culture to have a subject that normally would have been flagged out of existence as overtly political suddenly be featured front and center in the apparent belief that ideological purity is now a litmus test for who can serve on a board of directors in the startup world. In a free society, people can unite in their business ventures even though they might be far apart in how they v…

> compare notes on how they voted in the last election

This is mildly insulting. You know of course that the problem isn't who Ms Rice voted for in the last election "or some similar matter"; the matter is very dissimilar.

This downplaying of stakes isn't fooling anyone; it's unclear to me why you're even trying.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#594

Post by gatehouse » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 5:02 PM UTC

grellas wrote: post #538

Think about what it means to the HN culture to have a subject that normally would have been flagged out of existence as overtly political suddenly be featured front and center in the apparent belief that ideological purity is now a litmus test for who can serve on a board of directors in the startup world. In a free society, people can unite in their business ventures even though they might be far apart in how they v…

You have to draw the line somewhere. Instructing your minions to torture a prisoner is way, way over the line for a lot of people, myself included.

Sure, the Iraq war was a trillion dollar mistake, but that's just money. Live by the sword die by the sword and all that. A lot of Americans have a Christian upbringing, whether or not they ultimately believe in God. Torture is what Satan does -- that's the Satan, the personification of evil. This is the rock bottom of the moral scale.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#595

Post by bdlbdl » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 5:02 PM UTC

jnbiche wrote: post #423

droopybuns wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this offensive and foolish. People should put more effort into holding their politicians accountable while they are in office- not for settling idealogical scores after they reenter private life. We the people have no one to blame but ourselves for this. It is the voter's fault that these people are able to flourish. If we don't take our civic responsibilities seriously, then these kinds of campaigns are petty…

>Americans that act in these kind of thought police exercises instead of actually investing in the system should be ASHAMED of themselves. Is what she did illegal? Nominate politicians that will instill FBI leaders who will prosecute crimes. WORK FOR IT. Don't just talk. You need to do more than vote. Yeah, many of us did exactly that back in 2007/2008. We nominated and worked hard to promote and to get elected a pol…

Ok, not saying that Obama has been 100% perfect in his presidency so far, but are you really implying that he's been an awful president?

He's kept a lot of his promises: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/

Not to mention major wins in healthcare, Iraq, and avoiding the major impending economic collapse that was in place when he took office.

He's no saint, and I'm as pissed as anyone about the illegal wiretapping that happened under his administration. But keep in mind that no major politician will agree 100% with your views. And no president can or will keep 100% of his promises considering this shifting political climate and his limited powers in our government.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#596

Post by Tloewald » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 5:02 PM UTC

grellas wrote: post #538

Think about what it means to the HN culture to have a subject that normally would have been flagged out of existence as overtly political suddenly be featured front and center in the apparent belief that ideological purity is now a litmus test for who can serve on a board of directors in the startup world. In a free society, people can unite in their business ventures even though they might be far apart in how they v…

So you're invoking antisemitism and McCarthyism (but not quite getting to Nazism) in discussing people reacting badly to the appointment of someone widely considered a war criminal to a board position (type "condaleeza rice war" into Google and it will autocomplete for you -- handy).

"What matters is upholding the abiding principle (precious in a free society) that people can hold divergent views on such topics as politics, religion, and society without being punished for their views in a business context."

In a free society, is business the most important thing?

Re: Drop Dropbox

#597

Post by harpyeagle » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 5:03 PM UTC

steven2012 wrote: post #547

pvnick wrote: post #253

I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, I absolutely agree with most of the opposition to Condi Rice wrt the illegal war, warrantless wiretaps, torture, etc. On the other hand, I threw a hissy fit over the opposition to Eich based on his beliefs. I'm not sure how I can oppose Rice while standing up for Eich without inconsistency. Anybody else feel conflicted and have some insight? I'm still probably goin…

Of course you're being hypocritical. It's because you feel a lot stronger about the Iraq War than you do about gay marriage. Now put the shoe on the other foot. Think about all those people that feel as strongly about gay marriage as you do about the Iraq War. Their belief that they should protest against Mozilla doesn't feel that much different than your own protest, does it?

I'd like like to redirect you back to adnam's comment.

> Unlike Eich, Rice went far beyond simply holding beliefs and making donations. She held real power and used it in unconscionable ways.

All I can say is that personally I find Eich and Condoleezza to be worlds apart. Nor do I think it is hypocritical to feel stronger about the Iraq War than about gay marriage. People will have different priorities.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#598

Post by janj » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 5:03 PM UTC

grellas wrote: post #538

Think about what it means to the HN culture to have a subject that normally would have been flagged out of existence as overtly political suddenly be featured front and center in the apparent belief that ideological purity is now a litmus test for who can serve on a board of directors in the startup world. In a free society, people can unite in their business ventures even though they might be far apart in how they v…

Starting an unnecessary war is a big deal. Denying due process and torturing detainees is a big deal. The Patriot Act was one of the most un-American acts of Congress. Rice had a significant role in destroying the values I once thought were vitally important in claiming American exceptionalism. We can never get that back. We are now a country that starts unnecessary wars, tortures detainees and denies due process and spends vast resources on surveilling every citizen and she had a role in that. We will never be the country we once were before Rice and the Bush administration. I am proud to have always been vocally against the war, torture and the Patriot Act. I will continue to oppose the people who led these efforts and oppose anything they are involved with, staying true to my own personal values requires this.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#599

Post by davexunit » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 5:03 PM UTC

dhimes wrote: post #512

davexunit wrote: post #169

Finally people realize that Dropbox is unethical. They've been denying your computing freedom for years now, but it took hiring Condoleezza Rice for people to start to catch on. Replace dropbox with ownCloud. http://owncloud.org/

I was looking at their site for a while and I really have no idea what they sell. I'm sure it's just a communication issue, but it seems kind of weird. Like I have to register to find out that I will get a client for free but pay $10K/month for the enterprise software or something. How do they make money? Apparently you use your own server so you must buy the code?

ownCloud is free software licensed under the AGPL. This means that you can run the software on one of your own machines or find a hosting provider. The company behind ownCloud offers enterprise installations, which is probably what confused you.

Personally, I haven't gotten around to self-hosting yet and use a small free account at https://owndrive.com/

Hope this helps.

Re: Drop Dropbox

#600

Post by hackinthebochs » Thu, Apr 10, 2014, 5:03 PM UTC

aioprisan wrote: post #291

hackinthebochs wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy. Voting to give someone the authority to go to war, and actually taking the country to war on faulty or fabricated evidence are in entirely different universes. Voting for war authority was likely necessary as a bargaining chip against Iraq to get them to comply with inspections. That Bush took that as a blank check and skipped further diplomatic processes is entirely on his (and his administration's) shoulders.

What evidence do you have that there was fabricated evidence to justify the war? I'm not saying it wasn't faulty, but all the parties has closed door access to all the intelligence to make a decision. Just because we don't like the decision retroactively doesn't mean it was done on purpose, but rather due to mistakes being made. Not to say that's more comforting, just that they are different things.

I don't have citations off hand, but from memory:

1. Cheney strongly pressured the CIA to discover a smoking gun for Iraq WMDs

2. CIA produced a document that they themselves questioned the authenticity of (the "yellow cake" purchase document)

3. Bush/Cheney ran with that, ignoring the caveats of the intelligence and trumpeting it as the smoking gun

4. Later discovered that the document was fabricated

So while I haven't seen any evidence that they were personally involved in fabricating the evidence, they fabricated the narrative that justified the war by interfering with the intelligence gathering and vetting process and ignoring their recommendations.

Claims that senators that voted for war are just as responsible because "they saw the same evidence" does not account for reality. Senators are shown evidence, they are not involved in the process of gathering and vetting that evidence. If this process is interfered with then the conclusions are worthless.